Brownell and his Italian victory

In Ray Brownells book "From Khaki to Blue" he mentions he shot down an Italian fighter over Venice.

Venice at this stage was off limits to all aircraft, however most pilots disregarded this order as the sightseeing was relaxing if not pleasurable.

On 5 August 1918, Brownell was sightseeing when set upon by a single seat fighter with Italian markings, Brownell pulled he joystick over to throw up his wings, to show the Italian his markings, but the Italian flew around again and attacked. With that Brownellengaged the Italian fighter, and after a dogfight that lasted 10 minutes, Brownell got behind him and shot him down, the Italian crashing in waters just outside the Grand Canal.

The Italian eas seen to be moving in his cockpit as a boat approached him, so Brownell did not seem to think that he killed him.

On returning to his aerodrome the C.O. asked Brownell if he had shot down an Italian as they had phoned him and told of a plane with dumb bell markings has shot down one of their planes. Brownell responded that he had, the C.O. then covered up the whole situation, by telling the Italians that none of his pilots had been over Venice.

Does anyone know who the Italian pilot could be?

Ray Brownell was an Australian flying with No. 45 squadron RFC/RAF in Italy.

Regards,
Andrew.

[Kirby]

Why the hell would Brownell shoot down a friendly aircraft? Was he drunk or just plain stupid?

[Kirby]

Sorry Andrew. I appear to be the one who is drunk or stupid. I meant why did the Italian attack Brownell. This is what I get for posting at 6:30 in the A.M.

[Vin]

Kirby

Good question, that. Anyway, what are you doing getting stuck into it at 6.30 a.m. Or were you at the end of an all-nighter ?


Vin

[Kirby]

Vin

I'm on vacation this week and bored to tears as usual. Now that the Thanksgiving week-end is past I'll be able to get out and do something. I'm going to see the movie, "The Messenger", this afternoon. I can't stand doing nothing.

VBR
Kirby

Dear Andrew,
I know only one accident that can relate to the B.'s tale, but, according to the Italian official report (of which I have got a copy), the incident was slightly different and happened on February, 2, 1918.
That day the Macchi M 5 seaplanes of the Royal Italian Navy fighter units based on Venice escorted the bombers above the Piave river.
Returning to Venice, Tenente di Vascello (Lieutnant)Luigi Bologna, CO of the fighter units, saw one of the Macchi surrounded by three fighter land planes of dubious nationality and came to see what was happening. When Bologna recognised the Brits, he came near and wawed an hand. One of the Brit planes was identified by a capital F. Then the Italian pilot came near another Brit with a capital C. The two planes manoeuvred together for a little, then Bologna glided to alight. During the gliding, Bologna heard a strange noise but didn't take care of it. Ashore another Italian pilot said him that the noise was a burst shot by the Brit fighter. Only one bullet's hole was found on the seaplane tail.
As you can see, the tale is quite similar. Perhaps Brownells wrote his story many years after only on the thread of the memory, without accurate data.
Have you more informations to check if we are speaking about the same event?
Happy landings
Paolo

I can only assume that the Italian thought Brownell a spy or a German flying a capture British plane, as Venice was off limits, but that was rarely observed.

Again I am only assuming this as Brownell does not give any reason for the Italians attack, but he did learn a lesson though and got wet for it as well.

Andrew.

G'day Paolo,
Brownell's book was written late in his life, but I beleive that he got his information from his diaries, and as it was his first flight back from a stay in hospital, and the fact that he had to shoot down an allied plane, brings me to the conclusion that it happened on 5 August 1918.

The other major difference is that Brownell was flying alone and was attacked by a lone plane.

Regards,
Andrew.

[Soderbaum]

Hi
The French Escadrille 561 with about 20 aircrafts mostly 1-s were stationed in Venice at this time but the author Rinaldo DÁmi wrote an article of this unit in C&C Vol 19/3 were he stated that "little is known about the Escadrilles activities during the last year of the War".
But it is a small possibility that a french 1-s aircraft could have been involved..?

VBR
Gunnar

>the incident was slightly different and happened on February, 2, 1918...... One of the Brit planes was identified by a capital F. Then the Italian pilot came near another Brit with a capital C. The two planes manoeuvred together for a little, then Bologna glided to alight. During the gliding, Bologna heard a strange noise but didn't take care of it. ... <

Apparently Brownell smashed this Camel (B6283/C) up on the 22nd of February 1918, and got a victory in the same aircraft on the 30th of January, both round about the time of the incident Poalo described occurring. The cause of the crash was the motor in the Camel losing a cylinder.

Doesn't prove B2683 was his permanent aircraft, but he was in it around that time. So it is a possibility that Brownell was the one taking potshots at Bologna.





cam