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Other WWI Aviation Airfields, equipment, squadrons, tactics, training, uniforms and all other WWI aviation topics

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Old 12 April 2017, 02:38 PM   #1
Graeme
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100 years ago today - 12 April 1917

12 APRIL 1917

General Headquarters, April 13th.

“Much useful work was done by our aeroplanes yesterday, although the weather continued to be unfavourable for flying. The only hostile formation encountered was severely handled by one of our patrols, who drove down four of the enemy's machines out of control. One other hostile aeroplane was destroyed by us during the day. Three of our machines are missing."

Hostile aircraft –

Capt A M Wilkinson & Lt L W Allen and 2nd Lt W O B Winkler & 2nd Lt E S Moore, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control - drove down out of control one of seven hostile machines which they engaged.

Lt O T Walton & 2/AM J C Walker, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed north of Baralle at 09:40/09:40; Ltn d R Adolf Schulte, Jasta 12, Kia [?]

Flt Cdr R G Mack, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout broke up Quéant - Pronville at 09:45/09:45 - During the combat a German aeroplane was seen to fall with its wings completely broken. It is believed to have been brought down by Flight Cdr R G Mack, who is missing.

Flt Sub-Lt F C Armstrong, 3N Sqn out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

Flt Sub-Lt F C Armstrong and Flt Sub-Lt E Pierce, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

Flt Sub-Lt A T Whealy, 3N Sqn, Halberstadt scout out of control Quéant - Bourlon at 10:30/10:30 - drove down an HA out of control.

Flt Sub-Lt E Pierce, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

2nd Lt E W A Hunt & 2nd Lt K Fearnside-Speed, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control (shared?) Cagnicourt at 10:40/10:40 - 2nd Lt E W P Hunt & 2nd Lt K Fearnside-Speed, 18 Squadron, and Flight Sub-Lt F C Armstrong, 8 Squadron RNAS, drove down a black single-seat HA out of control; Ltn d R Adolf Schulte, Jasta 12, Kia [?]

Lt E L Zink & Pte N G Jones, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Cagnicourt at 12:30/12:30

Casualties –

Capt Sowery (Ok) & 2/AM Crickmore (Ok), 100 Sqn, FE2b 7027 - force landed near Arras after main petrol tank pierced by bullet then blown over by wind during bombing

2nd Lt N A Phillips (Kia), 54 Sqn, Pup A630 - last seen going down on its back south-west of St Quentin on escort to FEs

Capt F L J Shirley (Wia) & Lt L T Smith (Ok), 34 Sqn, RE8 A104 - pilot seriously wounded in stomach during photography and machine completely destroyed by shellfire after forced landing L15c62 at 11:00

Lt O D Maxted (Pow) & Lt A Todd MC (Pow; Dow 16-Apl-17), 18 Sqn, FE2b 4984 – took off 08:50 then missing on escort to photography 5th Army area; Vzfw Arthur Schorisch, Ja12, 2nd victory [Dury - Eterpigny at 10:35]

Lt O T Walton (Kia) & 28707 2/AM J C Walker (Pow), 18 Sqn, FE2b 4995 – took off 09:10 then missing on escort to photography 5th Army area; Ltn d R Adolf Schulte, Ja12, 9th victory [Rumaucourt - Baralle at 10:40]

Flt Cdr R G Mack (Pow), 3N Sqn, Pup N6172 – last seen 09:35; Hpt Paul von Osteroth, Ja12, 5th victory [Marquion - Bourlon at 10:35] ?

Graeme
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Old 13 April 2017, 06:15 AM   #2
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From JWC:

Claims:

Uffz E Horn, Js21, Sopwith 2, S Nauroy, 1100hrs, first victory. Esc N.38, MdL Richard (P), & Lt Hallier (O) both MIA.

Ltn H Baldamus, Js9, a Spad, N Pont Faverger, 1900hrs, 17th victory. Spad VII 2507 of Esc N.112, Adj-Chef G Chemet POW.

Ltn K Schneider, Js5, BE2c, Herbecourt, 3rd victory. No other info.

Obltn E Hahn, Js19, a Caudron, Orainville, 3rd victory. A Salmson-Moineau, Esc SM.106, Lt de Montfort (P) & Sol Portolieu (O) & Brig Robillard (G) all MIA.


Losses:

Ltn Adolf Schulte, Js12 flying Albatros D.III 1996/16 killed in mid-air collision with FE2d (sic) 4995, 18 Sqn, Lt Walton & 2/AM Walker. As noted above, 4995 was an FE2b.


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Old 13 April 2017, 04:23 PM   #3
R Gannon
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Quote:
The only hostile formation encountered was severely handled by one of our patrols, who drove down four of the enemy's machines out of control. One other hostile aeroplane was destroyed by us during the day. Three of our machines are missing."

Lt O T Walton & 2/AM J C Walker, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed north of Baralle at 09:40/09:40; Ltn d R Adolf Schulte, Jasta 12, Kia [?]

Flt Cdr R G Mack, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout broke up Quéant - Pronville at 09:45/09:45 - During the combat a German aeroplane was seen to fall with its wings completely broken. It is believed to have been brought down by Flight Cdr R G Mack, who is missing.

Flt Sub-Lt F C Armstrong, 3N Sqn out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

Flt Sub-Lt F C Armstrong and Flt Sub-Lt E Pierce, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

Flt Sub-Lt A T Whealy, 3N Sqn, Halberstadt scout out of control Quéant - Bourlon at 10:30/10:30 - drove down an HA out of control.

Flt Sub-Lt E Pierce, 3N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Pronville at 10:30/10:30

2nd Lt E W A Hunt & 2nd Lt K Fearnside-Speed, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control (shared?) Cagnicourt at 10:40/10:40 - 2nd Lt E W P Hunt & 2nd Lt K Fearnside-Speed, 18 Squadron, and Flight Sub-Lt F C Armstrong, 8 Squadron RNAS, drove down a black single-seat HA out of control; Ltn d R Adolf Schulte, Jasta 12, Kia [?]

Lt E L Zink & Pte N G Jones, 18 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Cagnicourt at 12:30/12:30

Lt O D Maxted (Pow) & Lt A Todd MC (Pow; Dow 16-Apl-17), 18 Sqn, FE2b 4984 – took off 08:50 then missing on escort to photography 5th Army area; Vzfw Arthur Schorisch, Ja12, 2nd victory [Dury - Eterpigny at 10:35]

Flt Cdr R G Mack (Pow), 3N Sqn, Pup N6172 – last seen 09:35; Hpt Paul von Osteroth, Ja12, 5th victory [Marquion - Bourlon at 10:35] ?
All the above reflects the action where C Flight 3 Naval were escorting 4 FE2's of 18 Sqn on the said photo recon on Fifth Army front which was attacked by 6 HA scouts (Js 12) vicinity of Pronville. It would seem however that Armstrong & Pierce only had the one joint claim (with 18 Sqn crew of Hunt & F-Speed) and not additional individual claims. Armstrong recorded, 'Attacked HA from behind and above (HA was attacking FE) firing about 30 shots into him at 70 yards range. He went straight over and down head first. He turned over so quickly and in such a peculiar manner that I think I must have hit the pilot, but another HA at this time was firing at me from behind, so I left the first and turned on the next, engaging him; the second went off down wind towards Cambrai.' Pierce wrote '....We both engaged him, firing about 40 rounds each into him....' He also noted it was , '..a Black Single Seater machine..' FSL Whealy who was behind, confirmed the HA to be '..fluttering from side to side straight down absolutely out of control.'

On return this report was also submitted, 'HA was seen falling through sky with one wing folding up. This was seen by F. Sub. Lt. Armstrong and has not been claimed by our Pilots who have returned. No 18 Squadron RFC whom we were escorting also saw this machine falling with wing damaged and do not claim it. It was probably shot down by F. Com. Mack who is still missing 5-45 pm.'

It is clear this was Alb DIII 1996/16 taking with it Ltn Schulte. According to German sources he collided with an FE (4995) - whether he had been hit first is unclear. The German system awarded collision machines as victories, thus 4995 became Schulte's #14.

The PRS data of the other missing FE (4984) states that FE attacked from long range, observer & controls hit, FTL at Eterpigny. Awarded to Vfw Schorisch.

Unfortunately the RPS for Naval pilots are yet to be found, so we do not have F/C Mack's take on the fight. However there are photo's of his intact captured Pup marked 'M' and named 'Black Tulip'. There are also photos of Alb DIII 1996/16 taken by FAA 263 personnel - a machine initially issued to Js 11 but at some point re-issued to Js 12. Some are want to believe photo depicts 1996/16 painted in the blue & yellow livery of Ltn E Lubbert of Js 11, however I suspect it is in black & white livery of Js 12. Suspect FAA 263 was collocated with Js 12 at Epinoy.

Cheers Russ
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Old 13 April 2017, 04:49 PM   #4
R Gannon
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Quote:
2nd Lt N A Phillips (Kia), 54 Sqn, Pup A630 - last seen going down on its back south-west of St Quentin on escort to FEs
Think the above is a stray from 25 Mar 17.

Quote:
Capt F L J Shirley (Wia) & Lt L T Smith (Ok), 34 Sqn, RE8 A104 - pilot seriously wounded in stomach during photography and machine completely destroyed by shellfire after forced landing L15c62 at 11:00
This crew provided a wonderfully detailed CR, too long to quote here in full; none the less it essentially says A104 was attacked by 4 HA scouts at 5,000ft - the leader described as 'black fuselage' with streamers on struts. There was the usual strong west wind making it difficult for the crew to regain Allied lines. Pilot Shirley was hit in back bullet lodging in stomach. Observer kept firing and one HA, broke off gliding down wind. Other three followed down through clouds firing when possible, observer returning fire. Despite his wounds pilot effected an FTL and observer pulled him from machine. This was near Herbecourt. One HA flew over at 50ft, and then flew off in company with second HA. (pointedly it did not fire at them on ground, as we have seen in other such similar situations). Observer got pilot to dressing station, soon thereafter their RE8 was destroyed by direct hit by German artillery.

It should be clear that the 34 Sqn RE8 reflects the Rumf-DD credited to Js 5's Ltn Schneider at Herbecourt - a jenseits claim. Suspect the RE's destruction by artillery allowed what had been in reality a zlg claim, to be considered a victory.

Cheers Russ
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Last edited by R Gannon; 13 April 2017 at 09:30 PM. Reason: little correction BE to RE8
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