100 years ago today - 16 February 1917

[Graeme]

16 FEBRUARY 1917

Admiralty, February 17th.

"An attack on the Ghistelles aerodrome (south of Ostend) was carried out by naval aeroplanes on the 16th inst. Heavy bombs were dropped, with good results.

"At the same time the shipping and harbour at Bruges were again attacked, bombs being observed to explode on the objectives."

General Headquarters, February 17th.

"In the course of air fighting yesterday one German aeroplane was brought down in our lines and two others were driven down in a damaged condition. One of our machines is missing."

Artillery Co-operation — Twenty-eight targets were dealt with by aeroplane observation.

Photography — Eighty-six photographs were taken during the day.

Hostile Aircraft —

Sgt H G Smith & Lt J W Aldred, 5 Sqn, Albatros Scout in flames Hebuterne at 09:30/10:30 - brought down an Albatros scout which crashed near Hebuterne; Ltn Hans Gutermuth, Jasta 5, Kia [captured number G.13]

Sgt H G Smith & Lt J W Aldred, 5 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Hebuterne at 09:30/10:30

2nd Lt D McC Kerr & 2nd Lt F C Elstob, 53 Sqn, Halberstadt out of control Wytschaete at 12:15/13:15 - a German aeroplane which was attacked by 2nd Lt D Mc C Kerr & 2nd Lt F C Elstob, 53 Squadron, fell out of control near Wytschaete [Combat Report marked 'not confirmed']

A patrol of 32 Squadron encountered four hostile machines near Bapaume. The Observer in one of the machines was hit and seen to fall forward.

Casualties —

Capt F W H Simpson (Killed) & 766 Sgt Trmptr C J Edlington (Killed), 53 Sqn, BE2c 6313 – broke up in vertical nosedive after descending out of control from 9,000 feet near Nieppe on artillery observation

Lt J Hughes Chamberlain (Ok) & 2nd Lt S R Carter (Ok), 52 Sqn, BE2e 6748 - badly damaged in forced landing due engine failure on patrol

2nd Lt A L Constable (Ok) & 2nd Lt A Roberts (Ok), 43 Sqn, Strutter A959 - force landed Watou on defensive patrol

2nd Lt E W Lindley (Pow; Dow 18-Feb-17) & 2nd Lt L V Munn (Kia), 16 Sqn, BE2c 4179 - missing while learning the country behind the lines; Ltn Karl Allmenroder, Ja11, 1st victory [south of Roeux at 11:00]

Sgt H G Smith (Wia) & Lt J A Aldred (Ok), 5 Sqn, BE2e

Graeme

[MASTIFF]

Also on this date:


Claims:


Vfw S Festner, Js11, an FE2b at Lievin-Grenay, 1210hrs, second victory. JWC has this as a/c 7635 of 40 Sqn. I show this number as an FE8.

Ltn H Baldamus, Js9, a Nieuport, S Aure at 1500hrs. Brig Girard on Nie 17 2409 of N.31 MIA.

Patrol, Js9, a Nieuport at Perthes.


Losses:

As Graeme has noted, Ltn Gutermuth, 2 victories, KIA on Albatros D.III


Tony

[Froggy]

Originally Posted by MASTIFF

Also on this date:


Claims:


Vfw S Festner, Js11, an FE2b at Lievin-Grenay, 1210hrs, second victory. JWC has this as a/c 7635 of 40 Sqn. I show this number as an FE8.

Ltn H Baldamus, Js9, a Nieuport, S Aure at 1500hrs. Brig Girard on Nie 17 2409 of N.31 MIA.

Patrol, Js9, a Nieuport at Perthes.


Losses:

As Graeme has noted, Ltn Gutermuth, 2 victories, KIA on Albatros D.III


Tony

Tony, sorry,but am afraid you'll have again some corrections on your JWC
on 16 February The serial number of the Nieuport 17 of Brigadier Maurice Auguste Girard was #2183 (Maurice Girard was KIA)
The Nieuport #2409 was the Nieuport of Brigadier Rivière ,escadrille 81,KIA on 25 February 1917 (see JWC page 32 )...

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by Froggy

Tony, sorry,but am afraid you'll have again some corrections on your JWC
on 16 February The serial number of the Nieuport 17 of Brigadier Maurice Auguste Girard was #2183 (Maurice Girard was KIA)
The Nieuport #2409 was the Nieuport of Brigadier Rivière ,escadrille 81,KIA on 25 February 1917 (see JWC page 32 )...

Merci encore, Bruno,

I wonder how many others on the Forum appreciate the updates that are coming out of this thread as much as I do.

Salut,
Tony

[R Gannon]

Hi Tony

And 40 Sqn's [FE8] 7635 credited to Festner (sic) was the machine of 2Lt LB Blaxland ok brought down by Flak Brit side La Bassee canal on 15 Feb 17.

Cheers Russ

[R Gannon]

The 16 Sqn familiarization flight which somehow strayed over the German side to become K Allmenroder's #1 (Js 11). There are photos of the downed 4179, which despite the fact that it was fatal for the crew, was pretty much intact, with only the undercarriage partly damaged.

The Js 11 Festner claim continues to be illusive. The location & type (FE-2) points to 25 Sqn. but no loss. But then again it is a jenseits claim!

The 5 Sqn downing of Js 5's Ltn Guttermuth was witnessed by JTB McCudden (C Flight 29 Sqn) who wrote; 'I saw two Huns attacking a B.E. over Gommecourt. Whilst hastening to his assistance I saw one Hun go into a dive, the past vertical on his back, then into a vertical dive again, in which he stayed until he went through the roof of a house in Hebuterne with an aweful whack and a lot of flying debris. The other Hun who was attacking the B.E. made off as fast as he possibly could....'

He then went on to provide another telling observation, 'During the rest of the patrol we saw a patrol of eight D.I's about two miles east of their trenches, and at one time six of them went up into the clouds and the remaining two underneath came slightly nearer to us in an endeavour to entice us to fight, but by this time I had enough common sense to know when not to attack.' It underscores a common German tactical ploy, which whilst not openly admitted in German writings, was the key to many a German aerial success. The untold truth behind MvR's overly celebrated victory over Maj Hawker for one. Paul Strahle in his diary does however note the 'upper' and 'lower' patrols. It was also the tactic being employed by MvR & Js 11 on the fateful 21 Apr 18. And with an eye to future combats involving MvR, one would be foolish to believe that when MvR in his CR's tells of attacking Allied machines accompanied by only one, or two, other airmen, that this represented the strength of his patrol. Likewise when he speaks of engaging opponents with 4 or 5 others, I would wager he was only relating to the 'upper patrol.' Personally I think it was a sound tactic, but somewhat removed from popular romantic notions of German airmen always fighting against the odds.

Cheers Russ

[James A. Pratt III]

SS 3 has 2 killed at Cambrai on this date could they be the 32 sqn claim at Bapaume? I know this is a little far.

[James A. Pratt III]

The SS 3 crew is Vfw Ernst Dietz and Vfw Franz Hamann killed over Villers au Flos which is near Cambrai according to the book " Schachtflieger"

The RNAS Communiques has a few combats this day along the coast:

FCDR Wood in Sopwith 9395 and FLT Le Mesurier Sopwith 9672 vs 2 german aircraft between Bruges and Dunkirk

FSL Powles Nieuport 3989 vs a LVG

FSL Thorne Nieuport 8747 vs a Aviatik

both off Dunkirk

[R Gannon]

Hi James

No I think you have hit the nail on the head - 32 Sqn as per Communiques. Villers au Flos is not actually near Cambrai, but rather just 4km SE of Bapaume. That's one that's slipped by me.

Well done

Russ