Wings over Westgate by Geoffrey Williams

Claudius · 30 August 2016, 12:54 PM

Hello;

Does anyone here own this book?

MattyBoy · 30 August 2016, 01:01 PM

Hi Claudius,
Yes I have a copy. What would you like to know?
P.S.- How is Livia treating you?

Matt.

Claudius · 30 August 2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyBoy

Hi Claudius,
Yes I have a copy. What would you like to know?
P.S.- How is Livia treating you?

Matt.

Swell!...there is something I would like to have a peak at.

July 18, 1918: two Camels from Manston airfield joined two Short 184s out of Westgate airfield. Around southeast of Kentish Knock, quadrant 1305K, they were met by six (or seven?) Hansa-Brandenburg W.29s lead by Christiansen -along with Otto Hess.

The two Short 184s were shot down. Planes #N2927 and #N2937.
Pilots and observers; 2Lt. Jack A. H. Pegram and 2Lt. Leonard A. Thrower,
Lt. Joseph A. E. Vowles and James G. M. Farrall

Pegram and Thrower landed on the water next to a W.29 and then "both burst into flames".

Vowles and Farrall were last seen making for land, but were never seen again and were presumed dead.

I am wondering what Wings over Westgate has on this encounter? What was their mission? What do they report that occurred? Was a W.29 shot down? Who claimed it? Are there any more details on encounter?

Livia?! You mean Grandmother?! I try not to get in her way.

MattyBoy · 31 August 2016, 10:56 AM

"Short seaplanes N2927 (pilot Lt JA Vowles, observer Lt JG Farrell) and N2937 (pilot Lt JA Pegram, observer Lt LA Thrower), escorted by Camels B5601 (Lt FC Vincent) and B7268 (Lt CF Wagstaff), set out to patrol from Kentish Knock LV to Sunk LV just before 8 a.m. At almost the same time 'Flanders I' Squadron, commanded by Oblt Christiansen and comprising six Brandenburg fighter seaplanes and a biplane, left Zeebrugge. Their course was West Hinder, North Foreland, Margate, Kentish Knock and home. Five miles south-east of Kentish Knock the two units met. Surprisingly, one of the German aviators had a camera with him and recorded incidents from the action to verify the report subsequently submitted by Christiansen.

The German aircraft went into the attack with the sun behind them and Short N2927 was forced to land almost immediately, smashing its landing gear as it did so and catching fire a moment or two afterwards. As the Brandenburgs and the Camels whirled about overhead, a second seaplane was seen to crash-land on the water and catch fire. Observers on the Kentish Knock LV five miles away, and the Camel pilots too, assumed that it was the German biplane and that the smoke and flames were the results of the machines fighting it out on the surface. When the Camel pilots, one of whom thought that he had succeeded in bringing down a seaplane down, saw a biplane flying westwards from the melee, they assumed that it was British and that their part was now over. They accordingly flew on ahead to report back to Manston that the surviving Short was on its way. Alas, this was not the case; German photographs show that in fact both Short seaplanes were shot down."

Claudius · 31 August 2016, 11:41 AM

This is outstanding!!!! This is just what I was looking for. Details on the engagement. This is the second time I heard of photos taken at the battle. I wonder where those are? I am really glad this book had an account of the day's mission.

"Kentish Knock LV to Sunk LV" Pardon my ignorance, what is "LV"? Light Vessel ?

Thank you Matt!

I owe you a pint...at least.

MattyBoy · 31 August 2016, 12:27 PM

Hi Claudius,
I would like to know where these photos are as well. Yes sorry, LV means Light Vessel.

There is more in the book about this incident - I will post more tonight and/or tomorrow. And I never say no to a pint!

MattyBoy · 1 September 2016, 10:58 AM

When Short N2937 failed to appear, Lieutenants Lander and Shaw took seaplanes N2642 and N2807 on a search for it. The wind at the time was force 5 and the sea was extremely rough – both Major Livock’s and Oblt Christiansen’s reports confirm this – and Major Livock said that he had seldom seen seaplanes operating under worse conditions. Although Lander and Shaw searched for over two hours, nothing was sighted and sadly they had to return with a nil report.

….Shortly afterwards pigeon 1725 was reported to be aboard the Kentish Knock LV, where it has taken refuge after being released from N2927. It had been caught in the crossfire of the battle and lost the sight of an eye. The pigeon subsequently became quite a hero at the station.

…the entry in the War Diary of the ‘Flanders I’ Squadron was simple and unadorned:-
The ‘Flanders' I Squadron with six Br. Ed. Flew on a long-distance flight over West Hinder, North Foreland, Margate, Kentish Knock and back from 8.45 until 11.15 a.m. At 10.15 a.m. two Short seaplanes and two one-seater planes were sighted and attacked. After a short flight both the Shorts were shot down. Meanwhile the fight with the one-seater planes carried on without result because, with their considerable speed and rapid rate of climbing, they flew off in the direction of Margate. The two Shorts burned up completely on the water. It was an English squadron which searched from the Thames to Kentish Knock for U-boats. Apart from the usual vessels along the English coast nothing was sighted.

Hope this helps

Matt.

Claudius · 1 September 2016, 11:32 AM

Amazing! This is wonderful stuff! Pigeon 1725!

And the German war diary entry from SFSI is in the book too?! It is great to really flesh out what happened that day. This kind of detail is similar to what can be found in WWII aerial accounts.

I deeply appreciate you providing this information. After over a year of searching, I am finally getting out of the dark regarding the events of Flugmeister Otto Hess' 1st (and only) victory.

MattyBoy · 1 September 2016, 02:42 PM

Yes the pigeon serial number is rather quaint. The book has notes for each chapter and for the German war diary extract it states:-

The account of the loss of seaplanes N2927 and N2937 is drawn from Flanders I war diary: Mitteilungen aus Gebiete des Luftkriegen No.42, 27 July 1918, Bundesarchiv Freiberg; G.E. Livock and D.A. Alderton, log-books and corresp; Air 1/646/17/122/354, Rept. on loss of seaplanes; Air 2/98/D16507, Pigeon services at Westgate.

Good luck and happy hunting,
Matt.

Claudius · 2 September 2016, 12:15 PM

Once again I am indebted to you for your thoroughness in reporting any valuable excerpts regarding this subject.

I thank you again for providing this account of the day's events taken from English and German sources.

The photos taken of the English planes still elude me - "German photographs show that in fact both Short seaplanes were shot down."

The photos were so informative, they were included as part of the official report of the incident.