Sopwith SS3 Tabloid 1205

RobW · 15 January 2011, 06:20 PM

I'm looking for any info I can find on Sopwith Tabloid 1205. I have the Windsock Mini-datafile on the Tabloid and it has two photos of 1205... a quartering shot from the right rear, and a head on shot.

Any additional photos or information is greatly appreciated... to include info about the RNAS pilots who flew it. Reference sources are also greatly appreciated.

I would also be interested in any of the other 12XX series SS3 tabloids.

Thanks!

Rob

fetubi · 16 January 2011, 05:35 AM

These are some Tabloids from that range you ask about. If you can get hold of Sturtivant and Page's RNAS Serials (Air Britain) then you'll get their entire stories, more or less. It's a magnificent book and still turns up.

These are just serials with locations etc I've copied down over the years - from AIR1 Home Defence records, Journals, and the odd log book etc.

1201 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1202 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1203 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1204 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1205 Sopwith Tabloid 3(N) Sqn E Med
1209 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch * left 10-02am to chase Albatros seaplane 23.5.15
1210 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch *AZep left 11-20pm LZ38 26.5.15 *AZep left 12-55am LZ38 OK(FSLt S Pickles) 1.6.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch left 10-15am to chase Albatros seaplane 23.5.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid 1RAS trg OFF 31.7.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid 9RAS Norwich ON 31.7.15
1212 Sopwith Tabloid Westgate(N) *AZep left 10-03pm LZ38 OK(FSLt RH Mulock) 31.5.15 * night cr ldg o't(FSLt R Lord DoI) 9Aug.15
Regards,
Trevor

RobW · 16 January 2011, 10:03 AM

Trevor,
Thanks for that.. it just so happens I bought the Sturtivant and Page's book Friday night... so I can't wait to see it once it arrives.

Could you help me make sure I understand what you've written?

3(N) Sqn E Med

is that 3d Naval Squadron, East Mediterranean?

Rob

snj5 · 16 January 2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fetubi

These are some Tabloids from that range you ask about. If you can get hold of Sturtivant and Page's RNAS Serials (Air Britain) then you'll get their entire stories, more or less. It's a magnificent book and still turns up.

These are just serials with locations etc I've copied down over the years - from AIR1 Home Defence records, Journals, and the odd log book etc.

1201 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1202 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1203 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1204 Sopwith Tabloid HMS Ark Royal
1205 Sopwith Tabloid 3(N) Sqn E Med
1209 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch * left 10-02am to chase Albatros seaplane 23.5.15
1210 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch *AZep left 11-20pm LZ38 26.5.15 *AZep left 12-55am LZ38 OK(FSLt S Pickles) 1.6.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid Eastchurch left 10-15am to chase Albatros seaplane 23.5.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid 1RAS trg OFF 31.7.15
1211 Sopwith Tabloid 9RAS Norwich ON 31.7.15
1212 Sopwith Tabloid Westgate(N) *AZep left 10-03pm LZ38 OK(FSLt RH Mulock) 31.5.15 * night cr ldg o't(FSLt R Lord DoI) 9Aug.15
Regards,
Trevor

do you have any notes on 1213?

fetubi · 19 January 2011, 01:21 AM

Sorry for the delay in getting back guys.

Yes, the E Med is an abbreviation for the Eastern Mediterranean. Very good to hear you've got yourself a copy of RNAS Serials Rob - it is one of the best, and you will find a ton of information in it. Specifically, about these Sopwiths, you've got almost an entire long column of tiny print, so you will be absorbed for months!
Sorry, I've got nothing on 1213.
Regards,
Trevor

RobW · 19 January 2011, 05:15 AM

Thanks,
If you don't mind, could you tell me more about where to look in the "AIR1 Home Defence records" or other records at Kew? I have not mastered the proper techniques to actually find what I'm looking for there...

Rob

fetubi · 20 January 2011, 03:09 AM

Hi Rob,
The task of researching AIR1 material at Kew (The National Archives here in London) - as you say "to find what you're looking for" - is often difficult and protracted. It's not made any easier by what I consider a rather opaque and some would say rather basic Catalogue (compared to some I name below), which has always been very literal - i.e. you can only search on line for phrases and words used in the file names and headings - which is rather hit and miss until you "learn" the language of the original compilers of the index. For example, as regards your question about Home Defence etc., you need to know that Home Defence operations were very largely done (and ultimately filed) under the parent group of 6th Brigade - only with this do you begin to unearth some Reports etc. These were what I was referring to.

I was very lucky to be given a paper copy of the typed index to the AIR1 files many years ago - hundreds and hundreds of pages long - so at least I can scan through this wad and with a bit of effort narrow down to something I'm trying to find, and I've got to know its approximate structure over the years.

But if it's this hard researching AIR1 files in London - for me 22 miles away around the M25 motorway - it's a h*ll of a lot more difficult if you're in the States! You might find a reference to Home Defence sorties in the on-line catalogue, but unlike the Australian records, or Gorrell Archive in the States, which you can drill down into (for free!) to individual sheets etc, you can only get the most broad file reference in many cases at the National Archives, and then no deeper, unless you start paying a researcher or the Archives to do your digging - and it ain't cheap, apparently.

I'm sure they have long term plans to scan a lot of their material - they've begun to do this already with some units' Combat Reports for example, but as far as I can ascertain there are no plans very soon to actually permit viewing of this digital material unless you are sitting inside the NA building at one of their terminals. It is as much to preserve the original paper files, as much as anything, as a lot of it is in a fairly poor and fraying state.

But there is a solution to a lot of this - and you're already doing it! - searching out and buying some really good reference books, which essentially do all the legwork for you. In the case of the British Home Defence effort there is another outstanding book you should add to your Wants List - The Air Defence of Britain 1914-1918 by C Cole and EF Cheesman, Putnam 1984. This lists every home defence sortie ever carried out - with aircaft serials, times, outcomes, substantial commentary, good indexes etc, which the authors have extracted from these 6 Brigade files etc. It comes with my highest recommendation.

Hope this helps,

Trevor

RobW · 20 January 2011, 09:51 AM

Thanks Trevor for your help.

Digging through the archives, using the advanced search feature... I started using some very broad terms... Samson, Dardanelles, Sopwith... and received some interesting hits.

One in particular (AIR 1/664/17/122/699) appears to be flight reports from the Dardenelles campaign... I requested a quote for that one hoping that I may find names of pilots and specific events (however dull and routine they may be) that I could tie to 1205. Perhaps I am hoping for too much...

Thanks again,

Rob