Background to S Dallas' Camo SE5a?

Barry Hickson · 7 January 2011, 04:15 PM

G'day All!
Can anyone tell me the story behind Stan Dallas' Camo SE5a ?

Why was it painted like that rather than the standard PC10 & were there any others done the same way either in his Squadron or in another Squadron?

Raineranton · 8 January 2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Hickson

G'day All!
Can anyone tell me the story behind Stan Dallas' Camo SE5a ?

Why was it painted like that rather than the standard PC10 & were there any others done the same way either in his Squadron or in another Squadron?

Hi Barry,

from SE5/5a Aces of World War 1 by Norman Franks:

This SE5a boasted a decidedly non-standard camouflage scheme with no unit-markings - even its serial number was partially obliterated by the paintwork, which was almost certainly applied in the field by no. 40 sqn.

Regards

Rainer

Barry Hickson · 8 January 2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raineranton

Hi Barry,

from SE5/5a Aces of World War 1 by Norman Franks:

This SE5a boasted a decidedly non-standard camouflage scheme with no unit-markings - even its serial number was partially obliterated by the paintwork, which was almost certainly applied in the field by no. 40 sqn.

Regards

Rainer

Thanks Rainer for that bit of info!
It begs the question ---Why?
From my memory it was also flown by other 40 Sqd pilots after Stan Dallas was Killed in Action in another SE5a.

Gregvan · 8 January 2011, 04:56 PM

Hi Barry,

I'm no mindreader and no expert on the RFC/RAF or Dallas; hopefully Breguet will see this thread and contribute. I can only presume that Dallas (or someone) felt that the regulation PC 10 camouflage wasn't effective enough and tried to enhance it.

In No 32 Squadron, Capt. Walter Alexander Tyrrell also flew an SE5a that had a non-standard multi-hue camouflage pattern applied. In addition, at one point most of the SE5a's in No. 32 had the white portions of their national markings and the squadron emblems and numbers "toned down" by a light scumbling over with some neutral paint. Capt Bogart Rogers of No. 32 wrote that on his SE5a he "camouflaged all the white portions of the machine, said portions being the numbers and the emblems which were likely to attract attention."

You might try doing a Forum search on the topic.

Barry Hickson · 8 January 2011, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Hi Barry,

I'm no mindreader and no expert on the RFC/RAF or Dallas; hopefully Breguet will see this thread and contribute. I can only presume that Dallas (or someone) felt that the regulation PC 10 camouflage wasn't effective enough and tried to enhance it.

In No 32 Squadron, Capt. Walter Alexander Tyrrell also flew an SE5a that had a non-standard multi-hue camouflage pattern applied. In addition, at one point most of the SE5a's in No. 32 had the white portions of their national markings and the squadron emblems and numbers "toned down" by a light scumbling over with some neutral paint. Capt Bogart Rogers of No. 32 wrote that on his SE5a he "camouflaged all the white portions of the machine, said portions being the numbers and the emblems which were likely to attract attention."

You might try doing a Forum search on the topic.

Thanks Greg! I remember seeing some of those "tone downed" Rondels in the Osprey SE5a Aces book profiles.
I might give Adrian a PM to see if he has any info.

StephenLawson · 12 January 2011, 05:22 AM

Greetings Greg.

I believe you will find it called, "Field Expedient Camouflage."

bristol scout · 12 January 2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Hickson

Thanks Rainer for that bit of info!
It begs the question ---Why?
From my memory it was also flown by other 40 Sqd pilots after Stan Dallas was Killed in Action in another SE5a.

Hi Baz.,

Your memory is sound mate---it was flown by Gwilym Lewis and George McElroy--as mentioned in 'Wings Over The Somme'.

Experiments with camouflage finishes was done as early as 1915 in the RFC (earlier for all I know) as the photo. on page 75 C&C vol. 19 no. 2 1988 shows---- an RE7 with such camo. on wings, the photo. dated 4th. June, 1915

Cheers, Dave.

Barry Hickson · 12 January 2011, 01:49 PM

G'day Chaps!
I had a PM exchange with Adrian who kindly supplied the information that experiments were carried out at Martlesham Heath on Camo Schemes on a number of SE5a's & when the experiment was concluded the Aircraft were not repainted but sent straight to Aircraft Parks for allocation.
I guess Stan must have taken a likeing to the one they received.
(Like Willie Fry's Cream Machine (not a SE5a)---except his ended up Ginger Brown to his disgust!)

P.S. Adrian said there was an article in a C&C issue that covered these experiments but he could not recall the issue No.