Aerial victories on the 9th November 1918

Regulus · 13 October 2002, 01:07 PM

Hi,

That specific day a number of DH 9's of 108 Sqdn were shot down in the area of Denderleeuw, does anyone know more about possible claims ? I start to suspect that the Marine Feldjasta's may have had something to do with this, but it's just a hunch.

Thanks and best from Regulus

Volker_Nemsch · 13 October 2002, 11:38 PM

In the The Jasta War Chronology there are only 2 German victories listed for 09.November 1918.

Lt. H. v. Freden (Jasta 50) shot down one D.H.9 (11.35) near Beaumont. This victory was not confirmed.

(The other victory was about a S.E.5a).

Regulus · 14 October 2002, 12:47 AM

Hi Volker,

Thanks for reacting.

The information I received is confirmed by TSTB of Henshaw, where it is said that the 108 Sqdn planes were involved in a fight with 12 or 13 Fokker DVII's and also had heavy AA fire. Some planes crashed some pilots got wounded,...

Most certainly there are missing pieces in the JWC but also in the Freiburg archives it seems concerning the last days and weeks of the war.

By the end of the war very few Jasta units seem to have been active over this part of Flanders, the MFJ's and Jasta's 40 and 51. Jasta's 40 and 51 had also the DVII in service, just like the MFJ's.

40 operated from Antwerp. 51 is a mystery to me personally and the MFJ's I have no trace after Eekloo, except that they would have retreated taking partially the way they came in. Antwerp-Mechelen ?

Best from Regulus

AOK4 · 14 October 2002, 04:58 AM

Hello Regulus,

It is really very difficult to find much sources about the last days of the war. It seems everyone was so happy about the end that they didn't do the 'unnecessary' paper work any more.
Also the German hinterland was in more or less in anarchy and besides that the continuous moving around didn't leave much time to do these paper works.
Another thing was that a lot of units had been merged in order to have a few units with fighting strength left (I guess this was also the case for flying units), so even the generals themselves didn't know exactly where the units were and which units still existed...

Jan

Regulus · 14 October 2002, 05:47 AM

Hello Jan,

This was indeed the case. It looks as all personel of the naval air units were coming together on the airfields of Maldegem and Eeklo in the final month. For example Fritz Stormer of the C Staffel of the Seeflugstation Zeebrugge was doing recon flights from these airfields, so in other words personnel was used of the seaplane units and this seems to have been no exeption at all.

However I'm convinced that the aerial victories must be known somewhere as the lists of the aerial victories were also still completed in early 1919. However one has to know the sources to find this extremely interesting material... !

Best from Regulus

Soderbaum · 14 October 2002, 06:47 AM

Hi Regulus

Regarding Fritz Stormer, I have some other information about him.
When See I(Zeebrügge) more or less was dissolved in early October and moved to a homeland position he actual moved over to MFFA III(ex See III).

I have a note that MFFA III moved to Ecloo on 16 Oct 1918, however only two days later they moved further to Stekene.

The Marine Jagdgeschwader had moved to Oostakker on 16 Oct 1918.

8)
Gunnar

Regulus · 15 October 2002, 06:09 AM

Hi Gunnar,

The possibility of the last victories of the Marine Jagdgeschwader come closer and closer. Osterkamp had influenza and rejoined his unit on the 9th of November... quite a coincidence ! A last effort to gain victories ? Perhaps one or two of the ones that are unknown to us ?
His last victories can not have been on the 29th October as he was still in bed !
I'll try to dig deeper in this...

Best from Regulus

AOK4 · 15 October 2002, 10:19 PM

Hello,

Do you have the memoirs of Osterkamp? Otherwise, I can have a look!

Jan

Regulus · 15 October 2002, 10:45 PM

Hi Jan,

I'm trying to get them since 7 years. I know someone who has them here but who lives to far away to be able to go pay him a visit. It would be nice if you could check this one.
I did read it once, but that's a very long time ago. I have very much on both Osterkamp and Sachsenberg's bio but this is one of the missing pieces.

Thanks and best from Regulus

Soderbaum · 16 October 2002, 07:52 AM

Hi again

Interesting information that Theo returned to the front on 9 Nov 1918.....what is the source..?
Also the information that he got the "killing" flu was new(at least for me..

.)

It had usually been assumed that Theo left for Pour le Merite vacation around 8 Oct 1918, when Sachsenberg returned from his dito.
It is also said that he was in need of resting at this time beacuse War strain and partly spent his vacation in some "kurort"...?

It seems clear from German sources that Osterkamp had 31 victories when he left. However no information exist yet about his last three(29 -31) victories, which were scored in early October 1918...!
Jan, do you have any notes on them..?

It is also a small possibility that his attack on the tank on 3 October actually could have been confirmed as a victory, because the German Marine had some slightly different confirmation rules than the Army...!

???
Gunnar