Jasta 22 and Mont (revisited)

[Shredward]

Mark Hutchinson and myself have been trying to nail down the location of a couple of problematic airfields for Red Baron and Over Flanders' Fields respectively - and the Forum came through for us with St-Mard. The location of Mont has been similarly troublesome, and we thought we had the answer from this thread in the Forum: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...highlight=Mont
However, I was doing some bedtime reading, and discovered this in an article on Erwin Böhme by Dr Niedermeyer in "Over the Front" Vol 10, No 1.
"When the great attack started against Verdun on 21
February, 1916, Kagohl II took active part...Just some
four weeks later Kagohl II advanced to, as Böhme says,
Landres-Murville; ie closer to Verdun.
Some confusion exists on the airfield designations:
Mont, Landres, Murville and other designations and the
triangle built by these three villages:
Airfield designated as: By:
Mont(Bonvillers) MvR
Landres Böhme
Murville H H Wynne
Mont-Murville A E Ferko
Please see also the map in OTF Vol 6 No4 p332
Prof. Werner writes in the book, "Brief Eines
Deutschen Kampfflieger An Ein Junges Mädchen"
p17...Landres und Marville..."Marville is incorrect
and misleading. As pointed out in the above mentioned
OTF, Marville is a reading-error form the handwriting
of Böhme's letters. The correct spelling of this
village is Murville. Now there are four different and
confusing designations for the same airfield. A
careful study of the Böhme albums and a thorough
research of the accompanying photos delivers the
proper solution.
MvR mentions the airfield Mont in the Chapter "A
Flight in a Thunderstorm" .... This airfield, Mont,
home airfield of Kagohl II at that time, is shown in
the accompanying photo and touched just the northern
outskirts of Mont, and no other village. The flight in
a thunderstorm described in MvR's book was from
Metz-Frescaty to this airfield Mont and von Richtofen
correctly designated the airfield.....
H H Wynne designates the airfield of Mont as Murville
in OTF, Vol 6, No 1, mapF-7, p55. A E Ferko designates
the airfield as Mont-Murville in "Fliegertruppe
1914-18, p17. Anyway, the most plausible designation
of the airfield of Kagohl II is Mont and not
Landres....or any of the other more confusing
designations."
I have the issue of OTF in question; the map shows Murville ie Mont about 50 Km NW of Metz, not east. That would be what is now known as Mont-Bonvillers, a location which I think is in the 5 Armee area. "Jasta War Pilots" has Jasta 22 attached to 5 Armee from 15 May '17 through 19 March '18. Question is, is the Mont of Kagohl II also the Mont of Jasta 22?
Regards,
shredward

[Taz]

Shredward- Jasta 22 was at "Mont, NE Verdun" from 15 May 1917 until 1 July 1917 and then back again as part of Jagdgruppe von Braun (Jastas 13, 14, 16, 21, 22, 23, 32, 34) from 16 August 1917 until 14 Oct 1917. From 14 Oct 1917 until 11 March 1918 the Jasta was at Vivaise. From Rick Duiven's unpublished Jasta War Diaries. Does not answer your question completely, but may fill in some blanks.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[JFM]

Shredward,

Concerning the location of Mont, as referenced by MvR:

Late summer 2004 I was trying to find this airfield, using only a modern road map and the aerial view found in Ferko's "Richthofen". I found Murville okay but then covered every square inch trying to match up the photograph with what is there now--zilch. Only after driving around the nearby areas in desperation did I stumble upon the telltale row of houses that bordered the airfield:



In the above view the airfield was located behind the houses at left. According to road signs, these houses begin at the border of Murville and Mont-Bonvillers; therefore, the bulk of KG2's airfield was in Mont-Bonvillers. Murville proper is actually a few kms away and only farm fields form any "border" with Mont-Bonvillers. The Mont-Bonvillers side is the city proper against which the airfield was snuggled.

In OTF Volume 10 Issue 1 Spring 1995, page 73, there is a map of the area. The airfield was located at ten o'clock of the "M" in "Mont", just across the little road below "Chat. d' eau"--kind of tucked into the "L" created by the little road and the larger road leading to Murville. On the map you will see the row of houses as well as a larger building next to dot surrounded by a circle. This circled dot is the location of a water tower standing there today, a perfect landmark for those who wish to visit the location:



The water tower is adjacent to a lumbermill of sorts (indicated by the larger building on the OTF map and visible far left in the above photo) that is located on the spot where MvR crashed his Fokker. The photo below is not that precise location--that's being saved for publication--but is close enough for shouting:



Follow this link for additional photos: http://www.cadeaux.com/v2/services-e...Vue%20Générale

I know this doesn't help with the Jasta 22 question but should nail down Mont's location.

JFM

[Shredward]

I am leaning towards Mont-Bonvillers as being the location of Mont for Jasta 22 as well as that of Kagohl 2. Mont-Bonvillers is NE of Verdun, whereas anything E of Metz is due East of Verdun. Also, by the time one gets some distance East of Metz, one is a considerable distance from the front lines. Perhaps someone has a diary entry from Ja 22?
I know only too well how hard it can be to track down things on the ground there - some things have remained the same, but others have changed beyond recognition over the intervening 85 years. I was visiting the Western Front again this spring, and spent a fruitless afternoon trying to find Hill 70, just north of Lens. A great uncle was lost there in the Canadian attack on 17/08/17, and we were trying to find the location. The area has become a warren of narrow twisting streets and endless miner's cottages, with no clear views of the surrounding countryside. Looking at your great photos reminded me of the area..
Ah well, there's always next time.
regards,
shredward

[Soderbaum]

Hi

I have that KG 2 was located* at Metz-Frescaty within AA von Strantz when the Verdun offensive begun. However, like KG 1 which was located within 3 Army their operational area was over the 5 Army. These KGs were OHL units which basically "not" belonged to a single Army, instead their activities was ordered by the OHL (supreme command at Charleville)...

Sometimes during Mar 1916 KG 2 moved to Mont, a village near Landres. I have no original notes that any Kasta was located at Murville...
All 6 Kastas were still located at Mont on 1 Jun 16. But I have a note somewhere that some a/c from some KGs "within" 5 Army in May where moved to near front locations...

*beware, as you could have three different photos from a KG dated the same day, which gives three different airfields and all three are correct...for example this was the situation with KG 3 in Sep 16 when the Kastas were spread out...


Gunnar

[Mark66]

Thanks Gunnar - Our question was really two, one of which was whether there was a German aerodrome near the "Mont" near Murville - this is the same "Mont" as the one near Landres as the three towns, Mont-Bonvillers, Landres and Murville form a triangle, each roughly 5 km from the other. That question seem pretty definitely answered as a 'Ýes'.

Second question was to get confirmation that the "Mont" where Jasta 22 was based is the same place. Seems likely but is there any confirmation available?

mark66

[fliegertruppe]

Forum,

I have two airfields in this area.
The first was between Mont and Murville. One Unit of the bavarian KG 6 (Kasta 33b) stand their.
The second airfield was between Mont and Landres. Parts of the KG 2 (Kasta 10 and ?) and the bavarian units Kasta 35b and 36b was their. In the near is a railway and a mine.
On 29. august 1916 a terrible storm destroyed many aircrafts of the bavarian units.

In the year 2003 I visit both airfields. It was a timetrip for me. Great!

greeting
Reinhard