lozenge colors

10 May 2002, 04:45 AM

OK, I know there is four and five color lozenge and darker and lighter color patterns for the upper and lower surfaces, but I have a question about the colors used. Looking at websites, articles and models, I have seen variations in the colors used, especially for five color pattern.

Did they have different color variations for different aircraft? Did the colors vary from different manufacturers?

At the Pegasus decal website they have a link to some five color lozenge fabric that was recently made in Germany. Are those colors accurate?

Thanks, Jim

Dan_San_Abbott · 10 May 2002, 07:38 AM

JimDrissell:
* * *The five color fabric was woven , processed and printed at one mill, the ink colors were controlled by Idflieg, the German Army's Inspection of Aviation. They held the patent for printed camouflage fabric.
* * * All the four and five color samples I have seen, as well as the five color samples in my collection as well as others, have identical colors for the upper dark pattern and the lower light pattern. *There were no variations. *I have in my collection samples of five color fabric from the FOKKER FLUGZEUGWERKE, a D.VII and a PFALZ built D.XII, the colors are identical. It would not be possible for the fabric to come from the same finishing batch, which confirms the colors of the ink were tightly controlled.
* * * The variations in the color by the various decal makers for models, is they most likely don't have fabric samples in their possesion to work from. So, they use information from some other source(s). *I worked with one decal maker, and it was a difficult task for him to get the correct colors. *I was not about to send him my fabric samples. We went back and forth for several weeks before acceptable colors were achieved.
* * * The colors that Ray Rimell lists on his Data files are not correct, at least to my eye. I don't know what he is using for reference.
* * * I am not sure Idflieg controlled the Four Color Fabric, I think that was a Fokker venture!
* * * * * * * * * * * *Blue skies,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San

Lyle · 10 May 2002, 07:49 AM

Hi Jim,
I have the Pegasus decals and I think they look pretty good. They are indeed matched to the lozenge fabric the MVT in Berlin came up with. Follow the directions included with the decals and the results should be great.

AchimEngels · 10 May 2002, 08:22 AM

Dan-San,

do you have the patent numbers for the printed fabric at hand, or would you mind looking them up for me please? Or at least would you know whom to contact about it?

Thanks a lot!

Achim

10 May 2002, 01:54 PM

Are the colors on this fabric accurate?

www.pegasusmodels.com/loz.jpg

I would like to print some lozenge on my computer to put on RC planes, and would like the colors to be as close as possible.

Lyle · 10 May 2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Are the colors on this fabric accurate?

www.pegasusmodels.com/loz.jpg

I would like to print some lozenge on my computer to put on RC planes, and would like the colors to be as close as possible.

That is the actual fabric, and the computer color is pretty good compared to the samples I've seen of it in the flesh.
I would be interested in what you do with your printer, since I use stencils and acrylic paint airbrushed for my lozenge. *I'm using Solartex as a base.
Cheers, Lyle

Dan_San_Abbott · 10 May 2002, 07:54 PM

JimDrissell:
* *The Pegasus color are not correct. *The top colors have the correct intensity and the bottom colors are too light. *The actual colors are vivid, not muted.
The Five color upper ink colors are:
* *1. dark blue, 20F5
* *2. dark purple, 16E5
* *3. blackish blue, 20G6
* *4. dull green, 30E5
* *5. leather brown, 6E6
The bottom five ink colors are:
* *1. oriental blue, 22D5
* *2. greyish magenta, 15D4
* *3. dull green, 25D3
* *4. greyish ruby, 12D5
* *5. ochre, 5C6.
The colors are slightly diluted in the printing process, the ink is scrubbed off the tops of the yarns and the ink settles in the valleys between the woven yarns.
*
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Blue skies,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San

Dan_San_Abbott · 10 May 2002, 08:02 PM

Achim:
I am not sure I have the patent number, but somewhere in the collection is the patent holders name and it may have the number. I shall look for it, and when I find it I'll post it on the Forum.
Blauer Himmeln,
Dan-San

AchimEngels · 10 May 2002, 08:28 PM

Dan-San,

that would be very kind of you.

If the number is there I will try to get a copy of the actual patent and in case you are interested I will go and send you a copy of it.

Best

Achim

EdStevens · 11 May 2002, 12:09 AM

Our National Aviation Museum here in Ottawa is restoring their D.VII. I was pretty thrilled to be allowed to see the wings in an upper storage area, partially stripped. The lozenge fabric on the interior edges was in mint condition for a sizeable area, never having been doped or exposed to air until the wings were stripped. I was surprised at the brightness of the colours and the style of the printing, and tried to communicate to the staff member I was with the importance of accurately recording the colours, as it was a rare opportunity to have the original lozenge in such pristine condition. I don't know if anything has been done to do so.

What surprised me in the printing was the way the lozenges were edged in black with a very "hand-done" look, almost like the effect of a thick black magic marker. The ends of the black edge lines were rounded and varied from lozenge to lozenge. This effect was printed and part of the pattern, it just looked very artistic. I hope they do have the fabric preserved and the colours recorded accurately as part of the restoration. Even though this has been done before it would provide a valuable comparison to other data on the lozenges.