Hptm von Schleich

I have long wondered if Hptm von Schleich was the top scoring pilot while using the Albatros DV/Va line of aircraft. Through some preliminary research, He seems to have flown this aircraft for the longest period of time, and scored over 30 victories in it.

The problem is, I cannot verify if he indeed only flew Albatros DV aircraft up to the point of recieving a Fokker DVII in June/July 1918. Can anyone straighten me out on this? Does anyone know who actually scored the most with this line of aircraft? :-[

Regards,

JASTA75

[Vin]

See Eduard Ritter von Schleich,

which suggests that he flew a DR 1. He scored his first 25 victories with Ja 21 between May 1917 to October 1917. Ja 21 was equipped with the Albatros. His next 10 were scored after March 1918 when he was in command of Jg 8 which comprised Bavarian Jastas 23, 34 and 35. Ja 34 and 35 were two of those Jastas equipped with the DR 1, so if he did score in the DR 1 it must have been during this period. His post war activities are even more interesting.


Vin

[Volker_Nemsch]

The pilot with the most victories while flying Albatros scouts is Manfred von Richthofen.

Of his 80 victories were:

60 aircraft while flying Albatros D-series scouts
19 aircraft while flying Fokker Dr. 1 scouts
1 * aircraft while flying Halberstadt scouts

Unfortunately I can´t split the score up into Albatros D.I, D.II, D.III, D.V, D.Va victories.

Hope this helps!

The best source I have found for a breakdown of MvR's victories is Under The Guns Of The Red Baron by Franks, Giblin and McCrery. They have it like this:

1-16: Albatros D.II
17-18: Albatros D.III
19-24: Halberstadt D.II
25: Albatros D.III
26-31 Halberstadt D.II
32-53: Albatros D.III
54-59: Albatros D.V
60-61: Fokker F.I
62-63: Albatros D.V
64-80: Fokker Dr.I

[Gregvan]

Gentlemen:

I believe Jasta 75's question was how many victories did Schleich score in the Albatros D.V or D.Va, not how many victories in any type of Albatros fighter. If we include all Albatros fighters, then MvR is certainly the highest-scoring Albatros ace. Personally, in my opinion, MvR did not fly any type of Halberstadt fighter during more than one or two victories; but that's a question for another thread.

Schleich probably began flying an Albatros D.V around June/July 1917 during his command of Jasta 21; prior to that he probably flew an Alb D.III. Let's say for the sake of argument that Schleich's 3rd victory, a Caudron on 21 June, was his first scored in a D.V. Most likely he continued to fly the Albatros D.V or D.Va right up until he left Jasta 21 in October , by which time he had reached 25 victories. He got back into action as commander of Jagdgruppe 8 in March 1918, and he was still flying an Albatros D.Va, judging from the numerous photos of him with his black-painted machine. I do not know when he finally received his Fokker D.VII, but Greim's Jasta 34b (an element of JGr 8) received a few D.VIIs on June 15, and eventually more. Stark's Jasta 35b didn't get any D.VIIs until August 24th. Schleich had increased his score to 30 on June 11 with a double, and I would bet he was still flying his old black D.Va at that time; so perhaps 27 or so victories in the D.V/D.Va ?

Vin, as I've noted on this forum before, I really doubt that Schleich ever flew a Dr.I in combat. Yes, Jasta 34b had a few, but I believe Schleich generally flew with Jasta 32b, and they certainly never had triplanes. The myth of Schleich's triplane is due to Ira "Taffy" Jones' writings. On 12 April 1918, Taffy was shot up and chased home by an all-black Triplane leading a group pf Pfalz and Albatros. We now know, by comparing diaries, times, etc. that this was our good friend Josef Jacobs of Jasta 7. However, Jones never knew that. In between the wars he met von Schleich at least once, and the two got along very well. I imagine Taffy asked von Schleich (over a few drinks) if he ever flew a black airplane, and von Schleich was only too happy to say yes- indeed he had ! They then (I believe) overlooked the niceties of aircraft type, location, etc. and Taffy claimed ever after that it was Schleich he met that day. This description of Schleich's "black triplane" has wormed its way into much of the literature, and even into this site's information.

I hope that clears up things a bit, but it will no doubt raise more questions. Thanks.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Jasta 75:
At least during June 1918, Oblt. Eduard Ritter von Schleich flew an early Rol. D.VIa in the seriial number range of D.1219-1249/18. It had a white spinner,wheel covers, fin and rudder, the fuselage, tailplane and lower fin were black. The wings were covered with 4 color lozenge fabric and tapes. The crosses were modified balken crosses with black painted over the 150 mm wide white borders at the ends of the cross arms. It had an Axial Propeller. Von Schleich flew this machine until he transitioned to the Fok. D.VII(OAW)
in July 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

I really appreciate the help guys. I was only concerned with his score while flying Albatros DV and DVa aircraft. It does seem to me that he probably was the highest scoring pilot on this type. He sure seemed to use it effectively!

Thanks a heep!

JASTA75

[Vin]

Greg,

I bow to your far greater knowledge. I understood that von Schleich commanded Ja 32b between October 1917 and March 1918, during which time he did not score at all and that he was involved in training new pilots during this time, too. Just how that worked out I don't know. From March 1918 he was in command of Jg 8, which consisted of Bavarian Jastas 23, 34 and 35. Was Ja 32 also part of Jg 8 ?


Vin

[Gregvan]

Dear Vin.

I actually shot my mouth off a bit too soon when I said Schleich did most of his flying with Jasta 32 when he commanded Jagdgruppe 8. I based that on a line-up photo of Jasta 32 aircraft which has a mostly-black D.V at one end, which is said to be Schleich's aircraft (but I'm not so sure of that now). Plus, since Schleich had once commanded Jasta 32, I assumed to would fly with that unit when he commanded JGr 8.

In the fantastic new book, "Aus der Chronik der Jagdstaffel 32" by the very knowledgeable Jörg Mückler,it indicates that even though Schleich took command of Jasta 32 around the end of November 1917, he may not have done very much flying at all with the unit. He scored not a single victory with Jasta 32, and only entered the victory listings again after he took over command of JGr 8 in March 1918 (?), his first "new" victories coming on 8 May 1918. Rudolf Windisch seems to have led Staffel 32 in the air, and may have been acting CO at some point in Dec 17'-Jan '18. The book has Schleich posted to the bayerische Militärfliegerschule in January 1918.

According to " The Jasta Pilots " by Norman Franks and our own Rick Duiven and Bill Bailey, Jagdgruppe 8 was formed in March 1918, initially composed of Bavarian Jastas 23, 32 and 35, plus one Prussian Jasta of the 17th Armee, Jasta 59. In early August 1918 this was changed to Bavarian Jastas 23, 32 and 35 only. With the addition of Jasta 34, these four units would make up the short-lived Bavarian JG IV.

I've entered dangerous territory with the Jaggruppen, as there is confusion and controversy about their composition. I'm sure that some of the REAL experts like Rick, Dan-San, Gunnar, Hannes or Mosen could jump in here and straighten all of this out.

Cheers,

Greg

Dear friends,

I have one more question about Schleich. I read on page 174 of Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War by Harlyford Publications that Schleich shot down Adjudant Dorme on May 25, 1917.
Scleich does list a Spad VII on this date, but in The Jasta War Chronology by Franks, a footnote on page 63 states that Lt. Kroll brought Dorme down. What gives? Could someone out there clear this up for me?

Regards,

JASTA75