So what is a Corps exactly?

[Vigilant]

I don't mean in the sense of a regular army corps. What I was wondering was exactly how a technical corps (for want of a better term) like the RFC, Tank Corps or Machine Gun Corps fitted into the hierarchy of army command.

For example, each of the five armies of the BEF had their own RFC Brigades by 1917, but from a Brigade commander's point of view there are two sources of orders: (1) his army commander and (2) Trenchard at RFC HQ.

Does any bright spark know how this apparent conflict was resolved? Did the army commander who knew little about aviation take the lead, or did Trenchard who knew little about the army's problems do so?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Regards all,

Vigilant

[Shooter]

Ordinarily, a corps is a structural organization containing two or more divisions, along with supporting elements for signals, artillery, supply & support, etc.

HOWEVER, comma, in the US Army, different BRANCHES of the structure were often referred to Corps (ie: the Corps of Engineers, which today has almost no uniformed participants at all, since the vast majority of that "corps" are civil servants).

The organization in charge of all non-naval air assets until 1948 was the US Air Corps, a branch of the US Army. I suspect that the RFC was originally a structure such as this.

The US Marine Corps was (in 1917) a loose organization of no more than regimental sizes scatterd about the globe in the business of handling brush-fire wars in the Third World (some things NEVER change). The first Marine unit larger than a regiment was the FOURTH Marine Brigade (go figure!) in 1917 and the first division was not formed until just before the Second Big Show (the summer of 1941).

Hope this helps.


Shooter sends

As has already been noted a Corps (pronounced like core as in apple) has two meanings.

It's the arbitary name for the collection of two or more divisions plus their support under the command of a Lt General. In 1918 the Australian Corps was almost the size of some Armies. An Army being the collection of two or more Corps.

The second sense of the word is like Shooter states; A Branch of the army.

The Australian Army then and now breaks these Corps down into two types; Arms and Services.

The Infantry Corps, The Armoured Corps and Artillery are examples of Arms. The Ordnance Corps, the Medical Corps and the Corps of Transport are examples of Services.

Corps in the second sense is purely administrative. Orders in the field come from the formation comander or his delegate.

I would assume the Army or Corps commander would make his requests for action/information to his subordinate (in this case his Aviation Brigade Commander) and they would pass orders down the chain of command to the squadrons.

I think the RFC commander would be setting policy rather than ordering individual squadrons around.

Hi,

In the case of the German Marinekorps Flandern, there were also two divisions, being part of it later three. At the head of the corps was an Admiral (von Schroeder) and a vice admiral for each division.
However the corps also posessed two U-boat flottilles, a torpedoboat flottille, the Zerstorer (destroyer) flottille Flandern, a Minen und Sperwesen, naval air units (jasta's, Kusta's, Schusta's, Seeflieger, Feldflieger Abt, Fesselballon Abt,..)
This was a very different structure than the US and UK ones.

VBR from Johan

I am being guilty of something I accuse others of - the sin of intervention on the basis of vague recollection - but a check of a general British Army history may prove me half-right or totally wrong. Historically (i.e. the 17th Century) as armies began to develop specialized bodies, the Commander-in-Chief (the King or a Prince of the Blood) was directly advised by Boards that had been assigned duties particular to those specialties (hence the Board of Ordnance, chaired by the Master-General of Ordnance). Thus, "Corps" implied fairly direct access to the Commander-in-Chief on matters budgetary. This spawned excessive numbers of miniature empires within the War Department (at one time there were two different Engineer bodies competing for the C-in-C's ear) and the system was reformed no later than the 1860s (at the time of the Cardwell reforms). Nevertheless, the nomenclature of "Corps" was retained as technology gave rise to new specialties. European and British practice borrowed freely from one another; American practice may have gone off on a tangent after 1783, although it is clear that Americans also borrowed heavily from Europe (perhaps more heavily from France) after the War of Indepenance. Notice how uniforms are similar from country to country (compare American Civil War uniforms with those of contemporary France - and of course nowadays everybody wears variations of baseball caps and Tilly hats).

Things were much less complicated when I was in.

How many and what kind of units does it take to make up a brigade?

[Shooter]

Sir:

That depends very much upon what military structure to which you belong. During the First Big Show, brigades consisted up two or more regiments, along with supporting bric-a-brac, and that was pretty much for all armies.

However, comma, during the Second Big Show, brigades became very different. The UK pretty much gave up on the regimental structure (British regiments became "battalion strength" units by and large} and the title of "brigade" was given to outfits that were "regiments" to everyone else.

After the Second Big Show, the US Army gave up on regiments also, and now a "brigade" is anything they wanna call it.

In the today's USMC, a brigade is an ad hoc unit which is task organized. Usually it consists of a Marine infantry regiment (actually, a Regimental Landing Team, complete with armor, artillery, engineer, and combat support elements commensurate with a regimental-sized unit) with attached air assets such as fixed-wing attack a/c and rotary wing support a/c. Quite a lot of punch for very little cost, and when wedded to US Navy "gator navy" vessals, it puts the nasty stuff on the line in very little time.

Hope this helps.


Shooter sends

[Billy_Bishop]

Basically, the United States Army Air Corps became the United States Army Air Force in late 1941. It remained the USAAF until Sept. 18, 1947 when it became the USAF.

Ok, history lesson over.

VBR,

Al Lowe

In the case of the RFC a Brigade was divided into two "Wings". There was a "Corps" Wing, whose main duties centred around close reconnaissance, contact patrols and artillery obs, and an "Army" Wing whose work involved long reconnaissance, bombing behind the lines, and scouting. Each wing consisted of a few squadrons: a Corps Wing might have 3 or 4 squadrons of RE8's, BE2's etc., while an Army Wing would have squadrons of single-seat scouts and one or more squadrons of two-seater Fighter-reconnaissance machines, eg Sopwith Strutters, F.E.2's, or Bristol Fighters. I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe that before the advent of the R.A.F.s "Independent Bomber Force" the longer range bombers also came under the Army Wing.

I imagine that the name "Corps Wing" suggested tactical work for the Army concerned, while "Army Wing" suggested a more strategic role.

Bob