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2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

 
 
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Old 22 November 2000, 10:14 PM   #1
martijn
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I was wondering which ace has earned himself the most medals and decorations. I noticed that Willy Coppens has a fair deal of decorations next to his photo but was he the highest decorated?
 
Old 22 November 2000, 11:10 PM   #2
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I think MvR had a huge set of medals.
 
Old 23 November 2000, 05:17 AM   #3
Kory Clark
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I know William Barker is the most decorated Canadian Ace.

I guess it's hard to say, what is the criteria more specifically? Most medals or citations? Do we weigh in the "value" of the medals. Guy and Nungesser were "Loaded" down with them, but the French were pretty liberal with medals even to aces outside france.

For some reason this gets me thinking on a New Zealand farmer(not an airman) who won the VC twice! In WWI and then again in WWII. Imagine introducing so and so, VC with BAR! lol

 
Old 23 November 2000, 08:11 AM   #4
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Yes we can't have the same look for soldiers of differents countries.
For example my grand grand father who was soldier in WWI won 11 medals! He did a heroic action but wouldn't have the same number of medals if he was british.
 
Old 23 November 2000, 09:27 AM   #5
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Check a general VC website. There were three cases of VC and Bar recipients. The first was a doctor (VC in Boer War, posthumous VC in World War I). The second was another doctor (both VCs in World War I - the Bar was posthumous). The third case - the New Zealander (whose name I do not recall) won two VCs and survived the war. A story has it that he was recommended for a THIRD VC but the King refused to grant it unless it was posthumous (so a DSO was substituted).
 
Old 23 November 2000, 09:32 AM   #6
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A chest ful of medals does not necessarily mean bravery awards. There were medals for volunteering, medals for long service, campaign medals (i.e. "I was there" awards) plus gallantry awards. It is legitimate to compare British and Domion personnel (all operating in the same medals structure) but utterly meaningless to compare French with German with Italian with Russian with British etc. Different systems, different standards, different procedures, etc.
 
Old 23 November 2000, 11:52 AM   #7
Graeme
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The New Zealander was Charles Upham and he was unique in that he was the only one of the trio of double VC winners to receive the second award before his death. He died in 1996.
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Old 23 November 2000, 02:19 PM   #8
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Among Americans in WW I, Rickenbacker undoubtedly takes the cake: MOH and 10 (count 'em) DSCs. Yes, it's absurd, but in those days there was no other (lesser) decoration; the Silver Star was sort of an attaboy in certificate form.
"Medal inflation" is a popular topic in military circles these days. Recruits get a ribbon for finishing basic training! Odd--used to be that the uniform said you finished basic! The AF awarded Bronze and Silver Stars to "combat support" people in Omaha, etc., during Kosovo and related ops.
It's interesting to look at the 1945 photos of senior US leaders. Eisenhower had 2 rows of ribbons, though he was never shot at. Patton had 4 rows but he'd seen combat in Mexico and WW I, including foreign decorations. Today, it's not unusual to see folks who've never been in combat with 4 or even 6 rows of ribbons.
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Old 23 November 2000, 04:04 PM   #9
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Graeme,
Upham was also the only one to be awarded the Bar to a VC, both of which were fighting awards - the others were awarded to surgeons who no doubt stood knee deep in dismemebered soldiers, repairing as much as possible for days on end with no rest. Don't get me wrong, these guys deserved awards. What about Albert Jacka? He SHOULD have been the only man to win the VC three times! Or even for our American colleagues, Alvin York. A very brave man, and without a doubt, worth a platoon of men himself alone, as was Jacka.

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Old 24 November 2000, 12:13 PM   #10
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Steve

You've only got to read combat reports, casualty records or the Communiques to see how many people deserved VCs but got nothing. Observers who climbed out onto the wing to plug holes in the fuel tank or to act as a counterbalance for a missing lump of wing; pilots who hung around in a flame-filled cockpit long enough to make a decent landing. It's incredible that the military mind of 1914-18 could select only 19 airmen as worthy of their country's highest award for bravery (and one of those as an afterthought).

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