SPA94 victories 15 July 1918

[spad]

On this date according to most sources (FASWR, Mechin's WW1 French Aces Encyclopedia and Guttman's "Grim Reapers") a patrol of SPA94 encountered three aircraft and shot all three down. Sources lean towards these being Rumpler biplaces but is this likely? Not the victories, but the formation. Why would three Rumplers or three two-seaters be flying together? The location is a Moronvillers. CGAS has several possible victims. It occurred to me that this was a mixed formation of reconnaissance aircraft escorted by escorts. The escort might be a Halberstadt or Hannover, or a couple of scouts.

I am sure that the French claims were enthusiastic but often have found there's a grain of truth in their claims, and that at least one German aircraft was lost and possibly two. I would have liked to do some geographical investigation but my old computer is dying, after my much newer computer was consigned to the grave, showing once again the shoddiness of modern i.e. five years, computer design .

Apparently my new new computer will arrive tonight. I expect this promise is as believable as Kylie Minogue fighting Rihanna over my attentions. Although that would be quite acceptable to me..possibly not for Kylie or indeed Rihanna. Their loss, After all sixty-seven is only a number, although if we factor in my bad knee, wine consumption, and affection for a bit of gardening...

K

K

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour spad

Leaving the angst generated by computers and women aside, difficult as it may be, I see that the FA 297 loss suffered on 15 July, with a crew of pilot Aquilin Hochrein and observer Hans Fritsch, is noted as being at Goussancort which is some 25 km from where the SPA 94 claims were made ... too far apart I wonder? Well, observer Wilhelm Guth and pilot Karl Wenzl of FA 286(A)b were lost SE of Reims which is about 3 km from Moronvillers. So, Guth and Wenzl may well have been shot down in combat with SPA 94.

I wonder if anyone could supply information about FA 286(A)b.

As you will know these details are found in Casualties Of the German Air Service 1914-1920 by Franks, Bailey and Duiven.

Salut!
Kirk

[spad]

I see they used the LVG CVI in 1918.

https://www.histomin.com/hm%20journa...LVG%20C.VI.htm

And the Hannover CLIII.

If this was a mixed formation on 15 July then a mixture of LVGs with a Hannover CLIII escort seems possible. Just conjecture of course.

[Gregvan]

Well, it is known that in 1918, FA 286(A)b had a mix of aircraft types, typical of most Flieger Abteilungen. This unit has become fairly well-known in recent years, due to their unusual and distinctive unit insignia. Bavarian air service historian Reinhard Kastner presented an excellent article oin the markings of the unit in "Proepplerblatt" Nr. 1, Summer 2001. In 1918, photos show that the unit had DFW C.V's, as well as Hannover CL types and later, LVG C.VI's. 15 July 1918 might be a bit early for the LVG C.VI, but not impossible; there were 173 of the type recorded in the Frontbestand listing on 30 June 1918; rwo months later there were 400.

Here is a DFW C.V of FA 286 (A)b.


This is a superb profile of a Hannover, by Hans Trauner, from the aforementioned Propellerblatt issue.


A crashed LVG C.VI of the unit.


And a Hannover.

[xjouve]

Given the French patrol line from Moronvilliers to Vouziers (as I understand it from their claims), here are the German losses on that date, grouped by location/sector. (Distances are from the old village of Moronvilliers; offsets to the Moronvilliers–Vouziers straight line noted where helpful.)


"Marne" (department-wide reference)

• Flg. SCHELLER, Friedrich — "Marne". Moronvilliers itself lies in Marne region.

SE of Reims / Moronvillers sector

• LdR. GUTH, Wilhelm — "südost Reims" (SE of Reims); Moronvilliers sat on the front line SE of Reims.
• LdR. WENZL, Karl — "südöstlich Reims" (SE of Reims); same sector as above.

Pont-Faverger (≈6 km N of Moronvilliers)

• Vzfeldw. SCHEDEL, Konrad — "Pont-Faverger".

Beine (≈8.5 km W of Moronvillers)

• LdR. SCHÜTT, Lambert — "Beine".

Jonchéry / Suippes sector

• Obltn. DOMMERICH, Walter — "Jonquery" (sic), most likely Jonchéry-sur-Suippes (≈13.5 km SE of Moronvilliers).
• Gefr. JACKSCH, Ernst — "Suippes"; ≈19.5 km SE of Moronvilliers; or possibly Jonchéry-sur-Suippes (≈13.5 km SE), or simply near the Suippe River (≈4.5 km E).
• Utffz. HERBERT, Hans — "Suippes"; same reading as above.

Somme-Py (≈16.5 km E of Moronvilliers; ≈8 km SE of the Moronvilliers–Vouziers line)

• Utffz. EMSLANDER, Georg — "Somme-Py".
• LdR. RÜLKE, Reinhold — "Somme-Py".

Dricourt (≈20.5 km NE of Moronvilliers; ≈13 km W of Vouziers; ≈6 km N of the line)

• Utffz. KNORTH, Ernst — "Dricourt".

Perthes-les-Hurlus (≈22 km SE of Moronvilliers; ≈15.5 km SE of the line)

• Ltn. von RITTERSBERG, Eugen — "Perthes" (read Perthes-les-Hurlus).

Laval-sur-Tourbe (≈28.4 km SE of Moronvilliers)

• Vzfeldw. HERBERG, Richard — "Laval-sur-Tourbe".
• LdR. HÖFGEN, Alois — "Laval-sur-Tourbe".

Outlier (far SW)

• Obltn. d. R. HOCHREIN, Aquilin — "Goussancourt" (≈48.5 km SW of Moronvilliers).

[spad]

Cheers Xav, that's brought it to a forensic level

It's beginning to form into a possible narrative.

K

[fliegertruppe]

Originally Posted by Kirk R. Lowry

Bonjour spad

Leaving the angst generated by computers and women aside, difficult as it may be, I see that the FA 297 loss suffered on 15 July, with a crew of pilot Aquilin Hochrein and observer Hans Fritsch, is noted as being at Goussancort which is some 25 km from where the SPA 94 claims were made ... too far apart I wonder? Well, observer Wilhelm Guth and pilot Karl Wenzl of FA 286(A)b were lost SE of Reims which is about 3 km from Moronvillers. So, Guth and Wenzl may well have been shot down in combat with SPA 94.

I wonder if anyone could supply information about FA 286(A)b.

As you will know these details are found in Casualties Of the German Air Service 1914-1920 by Franks, Bailey and Duiven.

Salut!
Kirk

Hello Forum
on the loss of the crew of the Fliegerabteilung (A) 286b can I contribute something.
In Leutnant Guth's personnel file, I found a loss report from the FA(A) 286b:

The airplane crew, pilot Leutnant der Reserve Karl Wenzel (F) – observer Leutnant der Reserve Wilhelm Guth (B), was apparently shot down by a direct hit during an infantry flight on July 15, 1918. The airplane crashed northwest of Thuizy in the Göbenwald forest, where the crew was buried.
Best regards
Reinhard

[fliegertruppe]

Hello again.

Regarding the other Bavarian crew that crashed on July 17, 1918, I can report the following casualty report:
The crew, Oberleutnant Aquilin Hochrein (F) and Leutnant der Reserve Hans Fritsch (B), took off at 12:25 p.m. on a combat mission. According to witness statements, the AEG J.I 236/18 aircraft crashed from low clouds approximately 5 km south of Goussancourt. The crew is killed on impact; the aircraft is destroyed.

Regards
Reinhard

[fliegertruppe]

Hello Forum
on the loss of the crew of the Fliegerabteilung (A) 286b can I contribute something.
In Leutnant Guth's personnel file, I found a loss report from the FA(A) 286b:

The airplane crew, pilot Leutnant der Reserve Karl Wenzel (F) – observer Leutnant der Reserve Wilhelm Guth, was apparently shot down by a direct hit during an infantry flight on July 15, 1918. The airplane crashed northwest of Thuizy in the Göbenwald forest, where the crew was buried.

Best regards
Reinhard

[xjouve]

Great find, Reinhard. Thuisy is ≈10 km SW of Moronvilliers—and a little less if you take the wood NW of Thuisy into account. I wouldn’t be surprised if both ground fire and air combat were involved in the mix-up, which could in turn inflate victory credits for single-seater pilots—especially given the day’s heavy activity.

I did a bit of homework. The SPA 94 register is somewhat sketchy for that day; however, it tends to confirm my initial guess on the Moronvilliers–Vouziers patrol line. The patrol consisted of seven French pilots led by Ltt. Carbonel, departing Brabant-le-Roi aerodrome at 09:30.

1) Claims (by location/time)

• Moronvilliers sector: 3 aircraft over Moronvilliers and vicinity at 10:20
• Vouziers area: 1 aircraft (time unknown). Likely a scout: per the register, Sgt. Crehore—lost in weather near Vouziers and seemingly separated—claimed an EA pursuing him over an enemy aerodrome, which fits single-seater behavior
• Return leg (Vouziers → Brabant-le-Roi): 1 balloon by Sgt. Crehore; both observers parachuted (time unknown)

2) Likely matches among German losses (geography-led)

Moronvilliers / SE of Reims sector
Candidates for the three Moronvilliers-area claims at 10:20

• LdR. GUTH, Wilhelm — reported NW of Thuisy [per FA(A) 286b file; noted as a direct-hit on an infantry flight → likely ground-fire rather than air-to-air]
• LdR. WENZL, Karl — reported NW of Thuisy [same crew as above]
• Vzfeldw. SCHEDEL, Konrad — Pont-Faverger (≈6 km N of Moronvilliers)
• Flg. PREUß, Kasimir — Beine (≈8.5 km W of Moronvilliers)
• Flg. SCHELLER, Friedrich — St. Souplet NB: if this means Saint-Souplet (Marne; renamed Saint-Souplet-sur-Py on 2 April 1961), it’s ≈10 km E of Moronvilliers and near our sector; if it means Saint-Souplet (Nord), it’s far out of theatre—leave as uncertain
• Utffz. EMSLANDER, Georg — Somme-Py (≈16.5 km E of Moronvilliers; ≈8 km SE of the Moronvilliers–Vouziers line)
• LdR. RÜLKE, Reinhold — Somme-Py [same crew as above?]

Here is an old map of the area. I’ve added blue markings: points of interest (including the wood NW of Thuisy, lower-left between Prunay and Wez) and two flight tracks—[1] the upper double-arrow shows the patrol axis; [2] the lower double-arrow shows the home-to-front-line track.



3) Vouziers sector
Candidate for the Vouziers-area "scout" claim (Sgt. Crehore)

• Utffz. KNORTH, Ernst — killed at Dricourt, where a German aerodrome existed in WW1 (with Leffincourt aerodrome ≈2 km S; Jastas 12, 15, and 19 stationed there in the period)

See photo of the Dricourt drome: https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/?p=34842

4) Balloon (return leg)

• On the return from the Vouziers area, Sgt. Crehore likely engaged a balloon near Massiges. Whether he struck alone—consistent with his reported separation in the weather—or as part of broader Allied attacks in the sector that day (SPA 81; SPA 152) remains unclear without times. The "Main de Massiges" (Hand of Massiges), just off the right edge of the map above, was an obvious landmark and waypoint on the Vouziers → Brabant-le-Roi track; both observers reportedly parachuted, so no balloon-crew fatality is expected in the loss rolls.

5) SPA 94 register



EDIT — corrections

• Name: I initially wrote "Créhore," following the SPA 94 register, but that is likely a French phonetic rendering of U.S.-born Austin B. Crehore (Hackensack, NJ), who joined the French Foreign Legion on 20 July 1917.
• Entries: In my first post, I inadvertently switched PREUß and SCHÜTT; this has now been corrected in the actual post.