A Little Off Topic But Still Related?

Forumites,
I was watching the TBS production of the C.S.S. Hunley movie last night and was wondering how the Germans got the idea for their U-Boats in WW1. I know that the C.S.S. Hunley was the first "successful" submarine attack on a warship and occurred in 1863. She sank afterward with all hands, and lay undiscovered for over a hundred years until she was located by Clive Cussler in 1995. Plans have been made to raise the Hunley, and the crew will finally be laid to rest with full military honors. Could someone please tell me how the Germans got their interest in the use of submarine technology. Was this another case of "Goddard technology" sold to the highest bidder? By the way in the early years of warfare, even up to the 1st World War, attacking by submarine was considered by the "civilized" nations to be a cowardly way of waging war. Attacking by stealth, from below the water. Surprise is one of the oldest axioms of strategy.
VBR,
Jim

[Darryl]

Hi Jim,

Small coast line, small navy, small Empire. Submarines, or 'Submersibles' to give those old boats their correct name, give huge leverage (witness the US nuke subs). I don't think the Germans would have had to think too hard before adopting the technology. How they got their hands on it I can't tell you.

very best regards

Darryl

[rammjaeger]

I don´t know the precise answer for WWI but the interest in U-boats started early. Already before 1849 the idea of the U-boat was born with the intend to fight superior fleets (attacking the own coast) like the Danish Marine. It is still possible to visit the famous "Brand-Taucher" - the first German U-boat manufactured and tested without success (it sunk)in the middle of the last century - in a German museum.

[Barrett]

One of the finest of all web sites in my experience is "UWeb" which is devoted to WW II German subs--a superb site right up there with "Nihon Kaigun" about the Japanese Navy. One of the Uweb links deals with WW I subs, so you might take a look there. Sorry I don't have the url.
One bit of perspective: submarines originally were expected to operate according to the prewar Prize Rules which actually governed commerce raiders. But since the gentlemanly way of waging war (best exemplified by Count von Luckner, the famous "Sea Devil") included offloading the crew and confiscating contraband, it didn't quite square with sub ops. That's why U-boats were branded war criminals when in fact they had no option to work otherwise. While there were atrocities on both sides, in 1946 Adm. Chester Nimitz wrote the Nuremberg tribunal that Doenitz's U-boats operated the same way as US Pacific Fleet subs.

ACE: An American named Holland designed and built the first practical submarine that fired torpedoes from inside the boat. They were and still are called pig boats. As usual the US Govt did not want anything to do with subs, so the Germans and the English paid royalties to Holland for the plans, and they scaled those boats up during WWI. If I remeber rightly the Hunley had its torpedo on a spar before the bow, right? The Germans called them U-Boats, short for Unterwasser=under water. They were the bad boats, but our submarines were the good boats, but there wasn't that much German shipping to send under. The Germans sank millions of tons of Allied shipping because the Allies had all the targets. In WWII our silennt service did a similar job on the Japanese merchant fleet. EOM/7/13/99.

G'day Jim,
In a book I have on Donitz, the Germans had already a vessel capable of subamrine activities in the middle to late 1800's but it was not until the 1890's when the electrical storage battery and internal combustion engine came along that the true submarine was born, and according to the book U-boat comes from the name "Unterseeboot".

Regards,
Andrew.

Source "Donitz and the Wolf Packs" Bernard Edwards.

[Darryl]

If anyone would like to own their own submarine, just contact ausnavy@gov.au. I believe we have some slightly imperfect Collins Class we can let you have cheap.

Bill,
Yes the Hunley's torpedo was mounted on a spar attached to the bow, once it was stuck into the wooden hull, she had to back off 150 feet to trigger the initiating device. It worked but they didn't know a whole lot about how concussive pressure works under water, consequently by them hitting the Housatonic's magazine the shock wave created by the blast sprung some of the plates and popped a couple of rivets sending them to the bottom. The Hunley killed two crews before Lt. Dixon ever set foot in her. You still must admire the courage of those men in that primitive sub, who knew that they had a slim chance of making it out alive if something happened.
Thanks for all the information, and it was as I figured...an American inventor devises the technology, and the American Government is too STUPID to capitalize on it. We have to learn the hard way by watching other nations bring it to the fore. Great country! Stupid Government!
VBR,
Jim

[mike_baram]

Jim,
I watched the "Hunley" movie too. Don't forget that the first recorded attempt at submarine warfare was Bushnell's "Turtle" during the Revolutionary War.
As for your comments regarding "Great country. Stupid government." - I remember a part in "The Broken Seal" by Ladislaz (sp?) Farago about the beginnings of the US code breaking program in the 20's. The department was under the State Department, and once the Sec. of State came into the office, saw that the clerks were reading intercepted ambassadorial missives, and said "Gentlemen do not read other people's mail". That set us back quite a bit when the Germans and Japanese were getting ready for the Big One.
I once saw an aphorism....."Every nation gets the government it deserves."
VBR,
Mike

Mike,
What I was reffering to by my comment was the lack of vision displayed several times by the military leaders and government. The submarine was considered "cowardly" therefore never pursued. The field of aviation suffered, particularly Naval Carrier Aviation in the 20's and 30's. And then there is Goddard with his rocket. 3 of the most important technologies developed in this century were passed off as being unimportant and not fit for serious consideration. So what happens as a result of this? The Germans develope the submarine and show us it's enormous potential as a weapon of war during WW1. The Japanese show us the destructive potential of carrier aviation on Dec. 7th at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. And finally the government turned up it's nose at guided rocket science until the Germans once again showed us the destructive potential of guided rocketry through the use of the V-2. But Billy Mitchell was sent to courts martial for telling the top brass that they were stupid concerning the vast potential of aviation. The Navy in it's infinite wisdom wanted to have a first class line of battleships, that being the outmoded ideology of the day. The pride of the U.S. Navy was CRUSHED at Pearl Harbor, it was the worst defeat ever suffered by the Navy in it's history, and still is. Americans developed those technologies to a state of great promise, and the government turned up it's nose for one reason or another. Great country. STUPID government!
VBR,
Jim