I have a question about Fokker E.I and E.III.

[kodamcity]

Hello. My English is not good, so I wrote this using Google Translate. Please take this into consideration when reading.

Anthony Fokker developed the M.5, the prototype of the Fokker Eindecker. The prototype with a shorter wing span was called the M.5K (A.III), and the prototype with a longer wing span was called the M.5L (A.II). From what I've read, the M.5K was slightly faster, but the M.5L was adopted by the German because of its better handling and maneuverability.

However, the aircraft that Anthony Fokker mounted the machine gun synchronization gear on was the M.5K.

What I'm curious about is why Fokker installed a machine gun synchronization gear on the M.5K, even though the M.5L had superior performance. Of course, there were changes in the E.II and E.III to make the wings longer and the fuselage longer, but wouldn't it have been better to just use the M.5L? Why did the German military not require the M.5L to be equipped with a machine gun?

My guess is that Fokker installed a machine gun on the M.5K instead of the M.5L for the purpose of selling the M.5K, which was not adopted by the German military. In that case, Fokker will sell both prototypes to Germany. What do you guys think?

Another question is that I read that the Fokker E-series had a small window inside the cockpit that allowed a view of the outside. The cockpit photos of the Fokker E.III and the IL-2 Flying Circus, Rise of Flight from Fokker E.III, have square windows with handles on both sides of the cockpit. The pilot could open and close this window to view the outside.

What I'm curious about is that I've heard that there another windows or doors on the cockpit bottom that allow a view of the outside, so that the pilot can see the outside between his legs. However, I haven't found any detailed photos of this. I've also checked the cockpit bottom in the game, but I can't get a sense of how it opens. Is it true that the floor is open? Where can I find detailed information about this?

[Phil1965]

I don’t know anything about anything. But remember reading in Paul Leaman’s Fokker aircraft of WWI , that Peter Grosz had investigated the original Fokker doco’s and at the time there was no attempt to identify different variants of the M5. Apparently it was something that started in the 1950’s and has just become accepted now. So accepted that Leaman in his book follows the letter identification for variants for clarity, but acknowledges it wasn’t strictly correct historically.

[kodamcity]

Originally Posted by Phil1965

I don’t know anything about anything. But remember reading in Paul Leaman’s Fokker aircraft of WWI , that Peter Grosz had investigated the original Fokker doco’s and at the time there was no attempt to identify different variants of the M5. Apparently it was something that started in the 1950’s and has just become accepted now. So accepted that Leaman in his book follows the letter identification for variants for clarity, but acknowledges it wasn’t strictly correct historically.

Oh, that's an interesting story.
According to the book you mentioned, at that time, the M.5 prototypes were adopted as single-seat monoplane reconnaissance aircraft by the German military without any clear distinction?

Then, is it possible that the German Air Service's naming system, where the short-winged M.5K was A.III, the long-winged M.5L was A.II, and the two-seat prototype M.8 was A.I, was arbitrarily assigned by historians after the war?

[Phil1965]

I’m really not sure kodamcity. It’s just something I read in that book. I’ll have to dig it out and see if there’s further info. That book is about 25 years old now , so there might be more recent information which disputes what was written. I know it sounds crazy doesn’t it , there must have been something to distinguish the different variants of the same model ? I’m sure someone will reply who is more knowledgeable about this. Thanks for asking your questions , I’ve not heard about these viewing doors/panels on the E type before and will be very interested to know more.

[Phil1965]

Found the book and just skimming through it. Leaman does mention that there was a gap between the wing root and fuselage to allow downward vision on the M.5’s , but it was aerodynamically unsound and effected the climb ability . The E.I discarded this viewing space and wing roots butted up against the fuselage. To compensate for the loss of downward vision and at the suggestion of Armee pilots a hatch that could be opened was fitted to the cockpit floor ( just as you said ) . Unfortunately I can’t see a picture of this floor hatch in the book.

[Phil1965]

Also the “A” designations were assigned by the military when the different variant aircraft entered military service.

[kodamcity]

Originally Posted by Phil1965

Found the book and just skimming through it. Leaman does mention that there was a gap between the wing root and fuselage to allow downward vision on the M.5’s , but it was aerodynamically unsound and effected the climb ability . The E.I discarded this viewing space and wing roots butted up against the fuselage. To compensate for the loss of downward vision and at the suggestion of Armee pilots a hatch that could be opened was fitted to the cockpit floor ( just as you said ) . Unfortunately I can’t see a picture of this floor hatch in the book.

Thank you so much for the detailed information. Although I still don't know how the bottom was opened and closed, I really appreciate you letting me know that the bottom was indeed openable. That cleared up my curiosity. Now I just need to find out why Fokker put a machine gun on the M.5K.

[Phil1965]

No problem at all. There’s a social media page with a picture of the hatch and a comment from Achim Engels ( I’m not on social media and not sure if your even allowed to post links to social media sites here?) but if you copy and paste the below is should take you close enough to click on it to view it ( hopefully )

Underneath the Fokker E.IIl. The hinged panels offer the pilot a view

[kodamcity]

Originally Posted by Phil1965

No problem at all. There’s a social media page with a picture of the hatch and a comment from Achim Engels ( I’m not on social media and not sure if your even allowed to post links to social media sites here?) but if you copy and paste the below is should take you close enough to click on it to view it ( hopefully )

Underneath the Fokker E.IIl. The hinged panels offer the pilot a view

Wow, thank you again. It opens and closes with hinges. I really appreciate it. I wish you good luck always.

[Lufbery]

Kodamcity,

I'm so glad you took my advice on the IL2 Flying Circus forum and joined us here at The Aerodrome!

Please keep posting, asking questions, and sharing your knowledge!