Unknown German April 17

[Phil1965]

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C157361?image=1

Interesting helmet held at the AWM , details on the page . Was wondering if this could be during the German spoiling attack at Lagnicourt ? Anyone got any idea who this belonged to ?

[Phil1965]

Bump - proper discussion , not self indulgent crap like the previous thread contributor. So , do you think that hole in the helmet was made by a .303? .. looks a bit doubtful from the times I’ve fired one , but I’m no munitions expert . So The Jasta Pilots has all the G numbers for single seaters , there seems no obvious match , but according to an old thread from GvW , a comprehensive list can only be found in C&C from the late 60’s , or Over the Front about 2018 . Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has those issues and can see a possible match !

[frontflieger]

Originally Posted by Phil1965

... So The Jasta Pilots has all the G numbers for single seaters...

Why concentration only on single seaters. And by the way not all crashed German planes got a G-No.

[Phil1965]

Fair point FF , but to be clear I only mention the single seater list as that’s the only one I have. As I said above , apparently the only comprehensive lists are in issues of C&C and OTF , which I don’t have , so was hoping someone who did have them could take a look.
I’m assuming that flying helmet was donated to the AWM memorial at some stage , the story that goes with it might have been a family story handed down , or might have some research behind it , it’s hard to know. It’s a stab in the dark to wonder if it is connected with the spoiling attack at Lagnicourt , but was just thinking that as it was an attack in the area claimed for the aircraft being brought down , it might be a possibility. I tried to look through casualties of the German air service book , but I’ve never had much success with that data. So as you say it’s more likely a two seater we are talking about . I guess it’s also possible the story about the origins of the helmet acquisition is totally incorrect? Stories change as they get handed down often , but I do think it’s an interesting story and that helmet has a story to tell. Thanks for your reply and interest , I appreciate it !

[R Gannon]

I guess it will be up to the much maligned little ‘ole me to shine light on this one, as usual.

I suspect it will be the helmet of Uffz Max Hasse from FA 26, who together with his observer Ltn Karl Kiem (Helm?) were brought down near Morchies on 24 Apr 17 on a DFW CV which was accorded the capture serial number of G25. They were attacked by a trio from 3 Naval Sqn (Pups) FlLt HG Travers, FSL FD Casey & FSL JJ Malone when over Queant with the fight going SE to Lourveral, and whilst Travers & Casey suffered gun jams, FSL Malone took up the attack disabling the observer (Helm) with his third burst. For once the wind was an easterly and the FA 26 machine landed in British lines, with Malone firing a warning burst which caused the pilot to evacuate his machine. Malone who was experiencing engine trouble decided to land nearby. Malone helped remove the badly wounded pilot when the area was subjected to German artillery fire which destroyed both the DFW and Malone’s N6208. Malone and the two crewmen took shelter in a depression where the pilot succumbed to his wounds. Later when it was dark both Malone & Hasse crawled to safety. Evidently Hasse had a slight head wound and one can join the dots and conclude the helmet belonged to him. Haplincourt is 6km down the road from Morchies and no doubt where the Aussies souvenired the helmet (much of this is drawn from a fine article on Malone by the late SK Taylor featured in OTF Vol 1 #1 1986 who gives the pilot’s name as Karl Helm).

Russ

[Phil1965]

“You’re the man” Russ Gannon! Thank you for taking the time and effort to give Max a voice again ( and all the rest of the long forgotten people involved in this action )after all these years and his helmet laying quietly in storage half a world away. Just excited to be able to do my layman’s research now in the directions you’ve so kindly provided.
Thanks mate ! ( thumbs up )

[R Gannon]

Thanks for the appreciative words; I guess unlike my detractors I can actually deliver in regards the ‘real’ WW1 air war.

That said, if we expand the parameters to include May 17 then there is another contender. On 2 May another FA 26 machine was brought down inside British/Australian lines. The crew of Ltn K Prill & Ltn P Reichel were brought down by ground fire on DFW CV 5866/16 coming down within the lines of 20 Bn of 2 Aus Div at Bullecourt. Prill was taken prisoner whilst Reichell died of wounds. A brief accounting in CEW Bean’s ‘AIF in France Vol III’ indicates that Prill asked an Australian officer what time was ‘zero hour’ (page 429). Evidently the Germans had wind of the attack which went in on 3 May. The DFW was given the captured serial number G 31.

Russ

[Phil1965]

Great additional information Russ , a bit further away from Haplincourt , but definitely something else to look into for sure . Thank you !
Quite a story about Jack Malone isn’t it , his mental health problems after watching Karl Keim succumb to his wounds shows the real human side endured. One wonders as Max and Jack waited out their time in that shell hole if they found more things that made them similar than distanced them? All part of the vagaries of war.
Proving difficult to find out anything about Max post capture, but the search continues.
As WFJ Harvey wrote in pi in the sky , it was these German two seater crews he had the most respect for. I’m looking forward to investigating “ scenario 2” !
I’m not a dedicated respected historian such as yourself , but one of the passions I have for military history is finding out about ordinary people who quite often performed extraordinary things in the biggest test of human endurance and character. Also if I may be so bold, I think you undervalue your support in your research and the way you freely and selflessly offer it up to people. I’m sure the silent majority out there knows only too well your contribution to the subject , the others don’t really matter.
Thank you again !

[Volker_Nemsch]

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[Phil1965]

I speak left handed all the time Volker , I speak first then start thinking , it cost me a tooth or two in my younger days . Your a proper German Volker , is there any info out there about Max Hasse ? Have a good one mate !