Jasta flying from Suzanne aerodrome (Somme) 1918?

[spad]

On 1 August 1918 "A" Flight 84 Squadron attacked some Fokker DVII near or at Suzanne aerodrome claiming three victories, two of which went down in flames. Which German unit/s used this aerodrome?

regards

Keith

[spad]

Is this Foucaucourt? There are no German casualties listed but we know records are incomplete.

Jasta 34b was operating Pfalz DIII and Fokker DVII at the time and both Jasta 37 and Jasta 77 operate the aircraft identified.


regards

Keith

[Graeme]

Suzanne was located on Trench Map 62c G.8; Foucaucourt was on 62c M.26, so the two are separated by about 9,500 yards (5.4 miles).

I can't see that Suzanne was occupied at the time; Jasta 76 had been there between 15 April and 10 July 1918.

In addition to the three Fokkers in flames, Alex Mathews also claimed a Pfalz out of control, so maybe we're looking at two or more Jagstaffeln being involved.

Graeme

[R Gannon]

I don’t have any extra visibility on this particular fight beyond what is written up in ‘Scorpion’s Sting’: that Capt Southey’s A Fight observed 6 EA scouts over Bray which climbed NE and were intercepted over Suzanne aerodrome. ‘Scorpion’s Sting’ which looks to be based on the SRB says nothing about any EA in flames: Southey’s is simply listed as destroyed (ATT too just gives X not XF), whilst claims of Falkenberg, Biccard & Mathews are only given as OOC (Falkenberg claim in ATT also OOC).

I think the reporting was getting ahead of itself to say it was the EA’s airfield. In my log I have Js 5 lightly pencilled in on account that Ostv Mai had an unconfirmed claim for a ‘Sopwith’ over Warfussee and this was the only scout vs scout fight on the Somme. Whilst Warfussee is 15km SW of Suzanne, it is still conceivable that Mai may have followed the SEs as they flew back to British lines taking pot shots.

One might also consider Js 46: they were based at Moislains which is 18km NE of Bray with Suzanne in the direct line of flight. The EA were recorded as climbing not descending. Later that day Js 46 mounted quite a successful attack on British balloons along the Somme between Corbie and Amiens (17.50-18.00GT) downing four. Maybe the staffel had been attempting that attack mid-morning – Bray, where they were spotted, is some 15km short of the balloons along the line of the Somme which conceivably they were following in order to carry out the attack – but when they found SEs above them they aborted to attack and made for home being intercepted over Suzanne.

As I read it; at best only one EA was brought down; probably no more than a forced landing. The combat reports, as always, are the key : maybe the reports of Falkenberg & Biccard noted a machine going down trailing smoke and this somehow has blossomed into ‘flamers’ for Southey, Falkenberg & Biccard. In my view you have to have the CRs if you are going to attempt a worthwhile history of any squadron.

Russ

[Graeme]

Reviewing the Communique (number 18) for the date, it merely states that E.A. were brought down by - Capt W A Southey, No 84 Squadron; there was no mention of any 'flamers' nor of claims by Biccard, Falkenberg and Matthews so these were at best out of control. I had sketchy notes taken from combat reports but my copies of the latter had been lost due to water leakage years ago, so fear I was influenced by Above The Trenches etc in regards to the 'in flames'.

Graeme

[spad]

Many thanks chaps. Yep, looking at my notes I did wonder why the Communiques which are pretty accurate about claims for just destroyed aircraft after mid-1918 were silent about these victories.

I did wonder whether it was linked to Falkenberg making claims for only fifteen victories post-war, but the addition still didn't work.

Russ's argument about the level of destruction more accurately reflects the actual claims for OOC, and the damage that could be expected to have occurred. The aerodrome is still a bit of a puzzle.

I had at the back of my wind the raid on Jasta 35b and Jasta23b which was on the same date but it was my being a bit addled

Keith

[R Gannon]

Just looking more closely at my log re 1 Aug 18, I see Lt WJ Pearson (US) from 23 Sqn was active just south of the Somme; claiming a Hannover in flames over Caix at 07.20 and a ‘Pfalz’ as OOC over Warfusee at 07.40BT. Again I have no details about Pearson’s combat’s; even the quite useful ‘In the Clouds of Glory’ (by James J Hudson), which otherwise provides quite useful visibility on the claims of American aces flying with the British, has nothing to offer. None the less ‘Warfusee’ is the same location as the unconfirmed claim by OStv Mai for a ‘Sopwith’; but annoyingly no time, whilst Capt JM McAlery from 23 Sqn is listed as being wounded as the result of a combat, but for once the usually reliable British fails to provide any time or location, all we can say is that his Dolphin would not appear to have been seriously damaged in any way. Adding to the mix, FlakBttr 510 looks to have been credited with a ‘Sopwith Dolphin’ – whilst there is no time or location, McAlery’s wounding reflects he only Dolphin casualty. Never the less there may well be a link between Pearson’s 07.40BT combat with ‘Pfalz’ over Warfusee, both the OStv Mai ‘Sopwith’ claim and FlakBttr 510 credit for a ‘Dolphin’ and of course the McAlery’s wounding. Suggestive that contrary to my previous suggestion, Js 5 is not such a strong contender for having been involved in the 84 Sqn combat.

Russ

[Graeme]

Caix and Lamotte-Warfusée are about 18 Km south-west of Suzanne, so not particularly good fit location-wise. RAF Communique number 18 is quite tight-lipped about the day's activities and Pearson's decisive claim over either a Halberstadt or Hannover two-seater (various accounts show both) is merely listed under the heading of 'E.A. were also brought down by'. Other than Pearson was aboard Dolphin D3749, there's little I can add. The aircraft was essentially written off when Pearson made a heavy landing after suffering engine failure on 16 August.

The casualty data I have for McAlery doesn't even include his Dolphin's serial number and I have 'combat?' against the entry; issue 1,000,001 to resolve!

Graeme