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| 1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only) |
3 October 1999, 06:10 AM
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#1
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Guest
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During the 1914-1918 war 9 million men lost their lives. The heroism and sacrafice of British and Commonwealth troops is without parallel. During the war, 306 British and Commonwealth soldiers were shot on orders of top military brass and senior officers, compared to only 25 German soldiers executed. Americans executed none of their soldiers.
The pretext for these executions of British soldiers was insubordination and cowardice.
Modern psychologists know that these men were suffering from "shell shock", "war neurosis" or "Posttraumatic Stress Disorder."
These accusations of cowardice and malingering also existed in the RFC and RAF. Please review your tape of "Hell's Angels" for the script writer and WW-I aviation veteran John Monk Saunders' version of this. There is also a detailed list of symptoms in "War Birds" by E. W. Springs.
I am researching this aspect of WW-I Aviation. (Cowardice or Clinical Depression?) Can anyone provide factual incidents of aviators being accused of cowardice and malingering when they were actually in a state of mental exhaustion?
If you posted on that other thread somne time ago, would you please re-post here also, so I can have this data in one place?
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3 October 1999, 06:17 AM
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#2
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: One of the sunny states.
Posts: 2,077
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While I don't have any info to pass on, I do know that the prevailing philosophy in European armies was that while soldiers could be accused of, and shot for cowardice, an officer could not be considered a coward (at least in front of the common soldiers).
This attitude prevailed well past WWI, to such an extent that an American movie starring Jack Palance, with Eddie Albert as a cowardly major, was banned in Europe for many years. (I think it was "Armored Attack".)
__________________
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
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3 October 1999, 08:49 AM
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#3
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Guest
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I have read of accounts of pilots aboting missions with unsupported claims of engine problems. I do have a specific case in mind but will have to return to the library for the particular source, which I will pass along to you.
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3 October 1999, 10:04 AM
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#4
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 5,749
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Slightly off topic but the problem was such in WW II that the 8th AF quietly authorized fighter pilots to shoot down US bombers headed for neutral territory (Switzerland or Sweden) if the planes were apparently undamaged and did not answer attempts at radio contact. I know of at least one P-51 pilot who said he had the opportunity but declined.
A Squadron/Signal book, "Strangers in a Strange Land" by H-H Stapfer (?) documents undamaged B-17s and/or 24s landing in Switzerland. The Swedes collected enough Mustangs to form a small squadron and filled it out in '46 or so with purchases from the US.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
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3 October 1999, 10:09 AM
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#5
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Guest
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2 British officers were shot for desertion and one for murder. No Aviation personnel, officers or enlisted men were executed.
andy
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3 October 1999, 02:05 PM
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#6
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Devon
Posts: 983
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One example might be Mick Mannock when he first joined 40 Squadron in late spring of 1917. I don't have the facts in front of me, but he was regarded by the squadron as having "cold feet". I believe he was physically sick before many flights. Yet it is obvious from his subsequent record that he was no coward. Or maybe this is a case of a man mastering his emotions as time went on? Given the conditions of WWI aviation, I would think fear is evidence of sanity rather than the reverse!
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3 October 1999, 11:25 PM
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#7
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Guest
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In Dudgeon's biog on Mannock, he relates that a young pilot joined Mannocks Flight, and showed a remarkable lethargy when it came to combat. Even to the extent of turnig for home at the slightest threat of a fight!
Mannock is reputed to have grabbed him warmly by the throat and threatened to shoot him down personally if he did it again....The pilot was subsequently and quietly tranferred back to England to serve his days in a training squadron!
Best regards
Paul
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4 October 1999, 12:31 AM
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#8
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Gennep
Posts: 853
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A while ago, a similar question brought it to the attention that British officers were demoted from officer status in order to be tried for cowardice - can't have OFFICERS be cowards, now, can we?!
Kind regards,
Reinout
__________________
"Despite living in a country where soft drugs, prostitution, euthanasia and gay-marriage are all legal, I've never felt any inclination towards any of the four."
R.Hubbers, 2004.
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4 October 1999, 03:30 AM
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#9
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In the Great Miami Valley of the old Northwest Territory.
Posts: 565
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Is it true that some French generals actually court martialed their troops for cowardice because the men wore the helmets they had been issued?
VBR
Kirby
__________________
Those who beat their swords into plowshares are now plowing for those who did not.
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4 October 1999, 04:00 AM
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#10
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Guest
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Kirby, can't answer that, but I remember when we were just learning about the World War in grade school, a classmate's father, who had served in the French Infantry, told us that during the back and forth attacks and retreats, many French soldiers held their helmet over their stomach or lower back (depending on which way they were going) in hopes it would deflect a bullet. They reasoned that a head shot was going to be fatal but a gut shot meant pain and agony, sometimes for days. (I can't pronounce poilu, or spell it either.)
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