The "Ehrenbecher" awards..when did it started .??

[Soderbaum]

Hi all
This award was given to a German crew when he/they had scored their first confirmed Victory
I am interested when the "Ehrenbecher" awards started..by whom(of it was someone behind it?)..and when was the first award given to someone.?
What did the German do with those who already had one Victory, did they recieve it afterwards.?
I have som theories about these questions, but no good answer...I think that the decision for this Award was taken late 1915 and the first Given was made during spring 1916.
Does it exist any good book or articles about the "Ehrenbecher".
Thanks in advance
Gunnar

[rammjaeger]

Gunnar,

I remember only that Boelcke and Immelmann got an Ehrenbecher on 31 December 1915.

The best source should be O'Connor. Reinout has five of the volumes and should maybe know more.

VBR

Hannes

[Reinout]

Dear Gunnar and Hannes,

My Volume VI is still in the mail (I hope), but I do have II to V and all I can say at this moment, is that I think the practice began quite early. In 1914, Richard Flashar and another man were credited (though not officially) with Germany's first aerial victory and for that, they got a commemorative cup. Boelcke and Immelmann also got cups and I think that's where the Ehrenbecher awards as we know them stems from. I don't know any better than that throughout 1916, each airman who downed an opponent/balloon was given an Ehrenbecher. It could well be that before the practice was instigated, a non-standardised series of cups were handed out to succesful airmen in 1914 and 1915, but that is a bit of speculation on my hand (I hate it when I don't have my books with me - which is most of the time!).

Kind regards,

Reinout

I'm going from memory, I don't have the book anymore (or even remember which book it was) The Ehrenbecher (trophy cups) were presented to flyers after their first victory. It was intitutred by a group of German industrialists. The cups were initially silver and later made of an iron alloy.

I believe that as more and more flyers were shooting down planes, the industrialists up the ante for the cup to three, then five, and later discontiuned the practice altogether due to the cost. However I'm going from memory and wouldn't swear to any of this.

I do know that after Richthofen was presented his Ehrenbecher he had similar trophy cups made for victories 2-60. This is why I don't quite understand why it was considered morbid

[center] <img src= "http://members.tripod.com/~toby_g/voss/ehrenbecher.jpg">

<hr> [center] <table> <tr> <td> </td> <td> Tobias Gibson
tgibson@ruhsu.rush.edu
48 Kills
</td> </tr> </table>

[Soderbaum]

Thankyou Hannes, Reinout and Tobias
The info given by you suggest that the first Ehrenbecher were presented as a "Christmas Gift" December 1915 for all those German pilots(observers?) who already had achieved one confirmed Victory and thereafter after a new first confirmed Victory for someone.
I also seems that its time for me to buy those O´Connors books.
VBR
Gunnar

Hello All,
In reference to Tobias' notes about MvR's collection of cups for each victory...I once read that he had a silver cup made for each claim until silver was no longer available. He would not accept "ersatz silber".
Best Wishes,
Gary Jacobs
P.S. Reinout -- Did the Kaiser summon you to Berlin for another medal -- or have you only been
busy drinking and womanizing? Perhaps I was out of
touch myself while on tour of the Ostfront. GJ.

Tobias,
Perhaps it is because as far as it is known, MvR was the ONLY IGAF pilot to have an ehrenbecher made for each of his victories. I can see it as an official recognition for a pilot's first, but patting himself on the back, to excess, leads one to think that his ego leaned more towards the morbid recognition of death. Or better yet, perhaps he felt invalidated without them.
Regards,
Jim

[Reinout]

Jim,

That is just speculation. However I did read in Floyd Gibbons (aging book by now of course) that MvR didn't like to see the remains of the dead flyers his victories produced. I don't know if there's any truth to it (what does Kilduff say about this?), but if it is true, than I don't think we can write him off as a morbid lover of inflicting death.

P.S.: many of my friends and myself keep track of the games and tournaments we win (at all sorts of things) sometimes by cups, sometimes by making notes or by simply remembering them. It helps the ego - every person has something to be proud of and wants to show it to everybody else.

Dear Gary,

I wish the Kaiser were investing me (again?)!! My life has gotten rather busy lately. I've started working at a factory every day to pay the rent and save a florin or two. Along with that I do sports after work from Monday to Thursday leaving the morning hours for internet/e-mail contacts. But I have to squeeze in studying as well...

P.S.: did you get my e-mail about the Jacobs scrapbook for sale at Der Rittmeister?

Kind regards,

Reinout