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19 September 2017, 04:16 AM
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#1
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 5,545
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100 years ago today (catching up ) - 19 August 1917
SUNDAY, 19 AUGUST 1917
General Headquarters, August 20th.
“Yesterday hostile aircraft worked in large formation well behind their own lines and endeavoured without success to hinder the work of our bombing, photographic and reconnaissance machines. Our bombing operations were continued; an enemy train was wrecked, and much damage was caused to hostile aerodromes, dumps and stations.
“Work in co-operation with our artillery was carried out with good effect, and many photographs were taken. In air fighting two German aeroplanes were brought down and four others driven down out of control. One other enemy machine was shot down in our lines by anti-aircraft guns. Six of our machines are missing.”
Aeroplane Co-operation with Infantry Attack — Machines of the Army Wing of the 3rd Brigade fired 9,290 rounds from low altitudes at various targets (living) during the course of the successful attacks by the Ill Corps.
Artillery Co-operation — With aeroplane observation, artillery successfully engaged 89 hostile batteries for destruction, and neutralised 40. With balloon observation, 19 hostile batteries were successfully engaged, and 37 other targets dealt with.
Enemy aircraft displayed little activity near the front lines, but moved about in large formations a long way back.
A Rumpler two-seater was shot down over Oosttaverne Wood by anti-aircraft of the 2nd Army. The pilot and Observer were both wounded and taken prisoners.
Aeroplanes of the 4th Brigade fired 1,150 rounds into trenches.
Photography — 498 photographs were taken during the day.
Admiralty, August 20th.
“Many tons of bombs were dropped during the night of 18th-19th by the R.N A.S. on the following military objectives :—
“(a) St. Pierre Station and sidings, Ghent.
“(b) Thourout Station and dump.
“(c) Bruges Docks.
“A bombing raid was also carried out yesterday morning (Aug. 19th) on Snelleghem Aerodrome, where a direct hit was made on a large shed.
“On their return our machines were attacked by hostile aircraft, which were beaten off with the help of an R.F.C. patrol. One enemy machine was shot down out of control. All our machines returned safely.”
Photographic Reconnaissances were carried out by No 2 Squadron to Ostende and Blankenberghe, plates being successfully exposed. There were the usual fighter patrols over the Fleet.
A night bombing raid was carried out by No 7 Squadron. Four 250-lb bombs, thirty-two 112-lb and nine 65-lb bombs were dropped on St Pierre railway station, Ghent; fifty-four 112-lb bombs were dropped on Bruges Docks; twenty-two 112-lb bombs were dropped on Thourout railway station.
A day bombing raid was carried out by No 5 Squadron; ten 65-lb and fifty-four 16-lb bombs were dropped on Snelleghem Aerodrome, direct hits on sheds and buildings being observed.
Enemy Aircraft –
Flt Cdr T F Le Mesurier & AGL H S Jackson, 5N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control south-west of Ostende at 06:00/07:00
Capt B E Baker & 2nd Lt H Munro, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Ostend at 06:50/07:50
2nd Lt J A W Binnie & Cpl V Reed, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Ostend at 06:50/07:50
The bombing flight of DH4’s of No 5 Squadron were attacked by EA near Ostende, but were driven off by a patrol of Bristol Scouts of No 48 Squadron, RFC. Flt Cdr Le Mesurier with Gunlayer Jackson engaged two EA, one of which was shot down completely out of control. Several other indecisive combats took place.
Flt Lt R R Thornely, Flt Sub-Lt R McDonald, Flt Sub-Lt W L Jordan and Flt Sub-Lt J A Thompson, 8N Sqn, DFW C out of control east of Lens at 08:50/09:50 - a patrol of 8 Squadron RNAS attacked a DFW which was shot down out of control by Flight Lt R R Thornely
2nd Lt H P Lale & 2nd Lt G R Waters, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control south of Nieuport at 17:00/18:00 - an EA engaged by 2nd Lts H Lale & G Waters, 48 Squadron, is believed to have fallen out of control
Capt P F Fullard, 1 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed Roncq at 17:00/18:00 - in an engagement between Nieuports of 1 Squadron and six EA scouts, Capt P F Fullard got very close to one of his opponents and, after emptying three-quarters of a drum into it, it fell and crashed
2nd Lt C B Simpson & 2nd Lt R F Hill, 20 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed Wervicq at 17:00/18:00
2nd Lt J L Boles & 2/AM W Harrop, 20 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Wervicq at 17:00/18:00
No. 20 Squadron engaged six Albatros scouts near Menin, and one was destroyed by 2nd Lt C B Simpson & Lt R F Hill, and another driven down out of control by 2nd Lt G L Boles & L/Cpl Harrop
Capt J T B McCudden, 56 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Gheluvelt at 17:25/18:25 - Captain J T B McCudden, 56 Squadron, whilst leading a patrol, got above an EA formation then dived and selected one painted red with yellow stripes and drove it down out of control
Flt Cdr C D Booker, Flt Lt R B Munday and Flt Sub-Lt E D Crundall, 8N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Hénin-Liétard at 18:30/19:30
2nd Lt A J Pratt, 70 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control south of Gheluvelt at 19:45/20:45 - Lt A Pratt, 70 Squadron, shot down one EA completely out of control.
Casualties -
Lt J F Byrom (Wia) & Lt E A Foord (Ok), 18 Sqn, FE2b A779 – took off 04:45/05:45 then hit by hostile fire from trenches on special mission 3rd Army area landed on aerodrome 07:55/08:55
2nd Lt W J Gillespie (Pow), 70 Sqn, Camel B2307 – took off 06:00/07:00 and last seen over line in direction of Polygon Wood on offensive patrol; Vfw Fritz Jacobsen, Js31, 2nd victory ?
Capt H Patch (Ok) & 2nd Lt LM Quelch (Ok), 22 Sqn, Bristol F.2B A7160 – took off 06:15/07:15 then hit by AA on DP and landed 07:25/08:25 at 5 Sqn
Lt F B Tipping (Kia) & 2nd Lt G S Gordon (Kia), 59 Sqn, RE8 A4266 – took off 06:15/07:15 then believed shot down by gunfire from hostile battery on line patrol, few parts salved at Sh62BF22 Gillemont Farm; Vfw Fritz Rumey, Js5, 2nd victory
2nd Lt C R Richards MC (Pow) & Lt S F Thompson (Pow), 20 Sqn, FE2d B1890 – took off 15:31/16:31 and last seen going down under control towards Oostavernne Wood on photographic-reconnaissance; Ltn Ernst Hess, Js28, 9th victory
2nd Lt H E A Waring (Pow), 1 Sqn, Nieuport 23 B1683 – took off 16:07/17:07 then missing after formation engaged 5 enemy Scouts over Menin on offensive patrol; Ltn Max Muller, Js28, 23rd victory
2nd Lt R Dutton (Wia; Dow) & 2nd Lt H R Hart-Davies (Pow), 48 Sqn, Bristol F.2A A7171 – took off 17:45/18:45 then reported to have been driven down by 2 EA over Ostend on offensive patrol; Ltn Brachwitz, Js17, 1st victory
Capt C M Clement (Kia) & Lt R B Carter (Pow), 22 Sqn, Bristol F.2B A7172 – took off 17:50/18:50 and last seen 19:35/20:35 during engagement near Langemarck on offensive patrol
? (Ok) & 1/AM G Brown (Wia; Dow 21-Aug17), 22 Sqn, Bristol F.2B – wounded in head (casualty on 21 August?)
2nd Lt C M Ross (Kia) & 2nd Lt J O Fowler (Kia), 45 Sqn, 1½ Strutter A8298 - believed direct hit by shell or breakage in air on COP; report by 53 Sqn seeing 2-seater break in air and fall near Zandvoorde
2nd Lt A M Epps (Wia), 70 Sqn, Camel – wounded in arm
Graeme
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19 September 2017, 11:05 AM
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#2
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Owen Sound Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,175
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JWC has:
Ltn M Muller, Js28, Spad, Ypern (ATL says Zillebeke Lake), 0815hrs, 23rd victory.
Ltn M Muller, 24th victory as Waring as noted by Graeme, above.
Vfw Jacobsen 2nd victory not shown in JWC but appears in ATL.
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Other claims this date:
Ltn H Gontermann, Js15, Spad, SW Jouy, 1040hrs, 31st victory.
Ltn E Thuy, Js21, Spad, Chattancourt, 100hrs, 7th victory.
Ltn H Putter, Js9, balloon, Vraincourt, 1500hrs, 3rd victory. French 48e Cie d'A, observer Adj Guy Benoist descended safely.
Obltn B von Voigt, Js8, RE8, Passchendaele, 1715hrs, 3rd victory.
Ltn O Kissenberth, Js23, Nieuport, Mort Homme, 1735hrs, 9th victory. MdL J Wetzel, N.86 on a Nieuport 24 MIA.
Ltn J Wintrath, Js2, Camel, Oostdunkerke, 1745hrs, zlg.
Ltn H Gontermann, Js15, 4 balloons claimed, S Aisne-Tal, victories 32 to 35, 1923 to 1926hrs. French records show 3 balloons lost, numbers of balloon companies not given.
Ltn K Odebrett, Js16, Spad, Mort Homme, (no time), 3rd victory. Sgt A Thevenin, N.15 KIA.
Losses:
Uffz Paul Felix, Js15, KIA near Boncourt. No other info.
Tony
__________________
* LEST WE FORGET *
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19 September 2017, 02:18 PM
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#3
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 5,545
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Ltn H Gontermann, Js15, Spad, SW Jouy, 1040hrs, 31st victory - Ltn d R Heinrich Gontermann; Spa 31, Sgt A Chapelle (Wia)
Ltn H Putter, Js9, balloon, Vraincourt, 1500hrs, 3rd victory. French 48e Cie d'A, observer Adj Guy Benoist descended safely - Ltn d R Fritz Pütter
Obltn B von Voigt, Js8, RE8, Passchendaele, 1715hrs, 3rd victory - Oblt Bruno von Voigt; often said to be Strutter A8298, 45 Sqn RFC, Lt B M Ross (Kia) + 2nd Lt J O Fowler (Kia) [but believed hit by shell or AA]
Ltn J Wintrath, Js2, Camel, Oostdunkerke, 1745hrs, zlg – Ltn d R Johannes Wintrath – I’ve seen this matched to 2nd Lt A M Epps, 70 Sqn, (Wia) but I have no time or location for the RFC casualty
Graeme
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26 September 2017, 03:15 PM
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#4
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 242
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2nd Lt W J Gillespie (Pow), 70 Sqn, Camel B2307 - attacked by 3EAs, tank hit Ftl Wervicq [TSTBF II]
2nd Lt A M Epps Aus. (Wia), 70 Sqn, Camel – combat with 14 EAs N of Menin 7.30 [TSTBF II]
2Lt FW Gibbes Aus. (Ok), 54 Sqn, Pup A649 – took off 5.00, combat with 3 EAs, shot up – to 1Ad, NWR and SOC 22.08.1917 [ www.airhistory.org.uk]
Belgian claims [The Belgian Air Service in WW1]:
Adjt A De Meulemeester of 1ere Escadrille claimed a D OOC unconfirmed at 14.45 Dixmude
Adjt A De Meulemeester of 1ere Escadrille (17.20-18.50) claimed a DIII OOC unconfirmed at Nieuport-Slype
French claims [FASWC]:
Sgt Tiberghein of N31 claimed an EA unconfirmed E of Langemarck
Marco
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26 September 2017, 08:16 PM
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#5
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,198
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FA 18 Vfw Walter Gabriel (P) and LtndR Enke both WIA unk location could be the 8N or a FAS claim
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27 September 2017, 01:39 PM
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#6
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,198
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JWC J 15 Uffz Paul Felix KIA unit attached to German 7 Armee FASWC has 2 DCA claims at unknown locations one or both could be him.
J 15 Gontermann claims a Spad> In FASWC there is Sopwith of C 27 Sgt George Villa WIA & OffAdm Andre Bouttiaux KIA. I believe this might be his claim C 27 was in this area.
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30 September 2017, 07:31 PM
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#7
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,121
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B/70 Sqn vs Js 31 and others.
Quote:
2nd Lt A J Pratt, 70 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control south of Gheluvelt at 19:45/20:45 - Lt A Pratt, 70 Squadron, shot down one EA completely out of control.
2nd Lt W J Gillespie (Pow), 70 Sqn, Camel B2307 – took off 06:00/07:00 and last seen over line in direction of Polygon Wood on offensive patrol; Vfw Fritz Jacobsen, Js31, 2nd victory ?
2nd Lt A M Epps (Wia), 70 Sqn, Camel – wounded in arm
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I have it this was a B Flight OP led by Capt Collett. RPS of Gillespie says poor engine, got behind and attacked by 3 EA - tank hit ftl. The 3 EA have to have been Js 31. The Jacobsen claim is listed in N'Blatt as 18 Aug, but is the last entry and one could suspect a simple typo, as to where 19 was put. Claim was Sopwith-1 & given diesseits. Indeed there is a photos of Jacobsen posing with the captured Gillespie and his Camel 'B4' (see OTF Vol 11 #1 p37).
I also have the Pratt claim as 0645BT, which rather gels with the Jacobsen claim time of 0752GT.
I have it Epps, also B Flight, wia in the arm at 0730 in a fight with 14 EA at 15,000ft north of Menin. He returned.
Russ
__________________
Our hearts so stout has got us fame
For soon 'tis known from where we came
Where'er we go they fear the name
Of Garryowen in glory.
Last edited by R Gannon; 30 September 2017 at 08:25 PM.
Reason: addition
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30 September 2017, 07:38 PM
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#8
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,121
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Quote:
Flt Cdr T F Le Mesurier & AGL H S Jackson, 5N Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control south-west of Ostende at 06:00/07:00
Capt B E Baker & 2nd Lt H Munro, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Ostend at 06:50/07:50
2nd Lt J A W Binnie & Cpl V Reed, 48 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Ostend at 06:50/07:50
The bombing flight of DH4’s of No 5 Squadron were attacked by EA near Ostende, but were driven off by a patrol of Bristol Scouts of No 48 Squadron, RFC. Flt Cdr Le Mesurier with Gunlayer Jackson engaged two EA, one of which was shot down completely out of control. Several other indecisive combats took place.
2nd Lt R Dutton (Wia; Dow) & 2nd Lt H R Hart-Davies (Pow), 48 Sqn, Bristol F.2A A7171 – took off 17:45/18:45 then reported to have been driven down by 2 EA over Ostend on offensive patrol; Ltn Brachwitz, Js17, 1st victory
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All of this is same action of course. I have it combat with 4 EA. Js 17 claim diesseits.
Russ
__________________
Our hearts so stout has got us fame
For soon 'tis known from where we came
Where'er we go they fear the name
Of Garryowen in glory.
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30 September 2017, 08:22 PM
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#9
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,121
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1 Sqn & 20 Sqn vs Js 28
Quote:
Capt P F Fullard, 1 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed Roncq at 17:00/18:00 - in an engagement between Nieuports of 1 Squadron and six EA scouts, Capt P F Fullard got very close to one of his opponents and, after emptying three-quarters of a drum into it, it fell and crashed
2nd Lt C B Simpson & 2nd Lt R F Hill, 20 Sqn, Albatros Scout crashed Wervicq at 17:00/18:00
2nd Lt J L Boles & 2/AM W Harrop, 20 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Wervicq at 17:00/18:00
No. 20 Squadron engaged six Albatros scouts near Menin, and one was destroyed by 2nd Lt C B Simpson & Lt R F Hill, and another driven down out of control by 2nd Lt G L Boles & L/Cpl Harrop
2nd Lt C R Richards MC (Pow) & Lt S F Thompson (Pow), 20 Sqn, FE2d B1890 – took off 15:31/16:31 and last seen going down under control towards Oostavernne Wood on photographic-reconnaissance; Ltn Ernst Hess, Js28, 9th victory
2nd Lt H E A Waring (Pow), 1 Sqn, Nieuport 23 B1683 – took off 16:07/17:07 then missing after formation engaged 5 enemy Scouts over Menin on offensive patrol; Ltn Max Muller, Js28, 23rd victory
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All of the above is same action. A 6 strong C/1 Sqn escort to a 6 strong 20 Sqn photo recce. Apparently 24 EA in the area, but only 6 attacked (Hess CR says Js 28 was 9 strong). Fullard reported, 'I dived on one EA, painted yellow with black stripes, which was cruising between me and the FE's. I got very close and fired 3/4 of a drum - he turned to left and dived straight down. I saw him crash near RONCQ (28.X.14.). Confirmed by 2/Lt CST Lavers & 2/Lt HG Reeves.
Apparently 20 Sqn's B1890 had its propeller damaged by Flak and attacked by 3 EA, controls hit and chased down by 2 EA. A rare treat is that the Hess CR narrative can be seen in C&C GB Vol 11 #2. Claims to have attacked out side right machine firing from 100m down to 10m. Says he followed FE down. 80 hits counted. Photo of crash landed B1890 in said Hess article.
As to Waring, he had a failing engine, clearly went down and was wia by fire at 2,000ft. Undoubtedly the keen eye of Max Muller saw the troubled Nieuport and he swept down to chalk up another easy kill. The are photos.
Both Muller & Hess claims diesseits. Js 28 were congratulated from on high for this dual success which included this rap for 20 Sqn, '.. an English squadron of six FE biplanes was in the habit of successfully defending itself against all attempts to attack by our fighter pilots...'
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Capt J T B McCudden, 56 Sqn, Albatros Scout out of control Gheluvelt at 17:25/18:25 - Captain J T B McCudden, 56 Squadron, whilst leading a patrol, got above an EA formation then dived and selected one painted red with yellow stripes and drove it down out of control
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Rather think JTB together with ELL Turnbull also attacked Js 28 a short time later. Noted as 6 strong, JTB's EA was seen close to ground still OOC by Turnbull. Muller perhaps?
It would appear from photos that Js 28 had black & yellow stripped tails (length wise) at this juncture as unit marking, which looks to be evident in both Fullard & JTB's reports.
Russ
__________________
Our hearts so stout has got us fame
For soon 'tis known from where we came
Where'er we go they fear the name
Of Garryowen in glory.
Last edited by R Gannon; 30 September 2017 at 08:32 PM.
Reason: little addition
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1 October 2017, 06:14 PM
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#10
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,121
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Casualties
Quote:
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Lt J F Byrom (Wia) & Lt E A Foord (Ok), 18 Sqn, FE2b A779 – took off 04:45/05:45 then hit by hostile fire from trenches on special mission 3rd Army area landed on aerodrome 07:55/08:55
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Needs to be emphasised that 4 machines of 18 Sqn along with 5 of 41 Sqn, 9 of 24 Sqn, & 5 of 60 Sqn mounted low flying attacks in support of the British III Corps attack at Vendhuille (south of Cambrai), and as Comuniques notes these machines fired 9,290 rounds at various ground targets.
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Lt F B Tipping (Kia) & 2nd Lt G S Gordon (Kia), 59 Sqn, RE8 A4266 – took off 06:15/07:15 then believed shot down by gunfire from hostile battery on line patrol, few parts salved at Sh62BF22 Gillemont Farm; Vfw Fritz Rumey, Js5, 2nd victory
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This 59 Sqn loss was also in support of the III Corps operation. Despite British perceptions, the RE8 was clearly credited to Js 5's Vfw Rumey credited with an ' RE' bei Epehy and given as jenseits.
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Capt C M Clement (Kia) & Lt R B Carter (Pow), 22 Sqn, Bristol F.2B A7172 – took off 17:50/18:50 and last seen 19:35/20:35 during engagement near Langemarck on offensive patrol
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The long serving and courageous Clement looks to have fallen victim to FlakBttr 518 who were credited with a 'Martinsyde' at Zonnebeke. The Canadian had 14 victories to his credit. Believed to have fallen in flames. 22 Sqn had been involved in scrapping with EA scouts, which also drew in Capt PG Taylors flight of 66 Sqn, but as with all British aircraft, fighting as they did over German lines, they were constantly subjected to the attentions of Flak.
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2nd Lt C M Ross (Kia) & 2nd Lt J O Fowler (Kia), 45 Sqn, 1½ Strutter A8298 - believed direct hit by shell or breakage in air on COP; report by 53 Sqn seeing 2-seater break in air and fall near Zandvoorde
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Whilst it may well have been a shell, it would appear Flakzug 99 were credited with a Sopwith at nearby Hollebeke.
Hollebeke was also where 2 Army AA accounted for the FAA 250 machine of Vfw W Gabriel & Ltn C Splitgerber both taken pow in a Rumpler CIV accorded capture serial of G62.
Ground fire also caused the FA 18 casualty of Vfw Frytag & Ltn Enke both wia on 6 ARMEE sector. Some cources cite 18 Aug for wounding of Frytag.
Russ
__________________
Our hearts so stout has got us fame
For soon 'tis known from where we came
Where'er we go they fear the name
Of Garryowen in glory.
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