Odd observation about JG top aces

[Knusel]

Preface: the top ace in a unit is the most successful ace that served in a unit no matter how many of his kills were scored in that unit whereas the top ace of a unit is the ace that contributed the most kills to a unit's tally.

• the top ace in JGI is Manfred von Richthofen, 80 victories
• the top ace of JGI is Erich Loewenhardt, 53 victories
• both died in action in 1918

• the top ace in JGII is Rudolf Berthold, 44 victories
• the top ace of JGII is Franz Büchner, 38 victories
• both died in postwar trouble in 1920

• the top ace in JGIII is Bruno Loerzer, 44 victories
• the top ace of JGIII is Karl Bolle, 31 victories
• both died in the early years of the Federal Republic of Germany, 1960 and 1955

• the top ace in JGIV is Eduard von Schleich, 35 victories
• the top pilot of JGIV is Robert von Greim, 3 victories
• both died very soon after WW2, 1947 and 1945

• the top ace in the Marine-JG is Theodor Osterkamp, 38 victories
• the top ace of the Marine-JG is Alexander Zenzes, 12 victories
• both died long after WW2, 1975 and 1980

Cheers,

Michael

[Claudius]

Hmmmm.....statically, I don't know if it is coincidental or not, but it is still an interesting finding.

[Barry Hickson]

That made for interesting reading Michael!
Well done.

[Knusel]

Good morning Gentlemen,

I think it has not been for very long that we know about the whereabouts of Zenzes:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...exander+zenses

Michael

[Knusel]

Hello,

I wonder about the Marine-Jagdgeschwader score of Zenzes.
The unit might have been founded later than I thought.
Thearodrome indicates the Marine-Jagdgeschwader was founded on 2Sep1918 but in the books of Greg VanWyngarden, Norman Franks and Jon Guttman I found it was in mid-October.
Who can clarify the correct date ?

Michael

[sator]

Originally Posted by Knusel

Preface: the top ace in a unit is the most successful ace that served in a unit no matter how many of his kills were scored in that unit whereas the top ace of a unit is the ace that contributed the most kills to a unit's tally.

• the top ace in JGI is Manfred von Richthofen, 80 victories
• the top ace of JGI is Erich Loewenhardt, 53 victories
• both died in action in 1918

• the top ace in JGII is Rudolf Berthold, 44 victories
• the top ace of JGII is Franz Büchner, 38 victories
• both died in postwar trouble in 1920

• the top ace in JGIII is Bruno Loerzer, 44 victories
• the top ace of JGIII is Karl Bolle, 31 victories
• both died in the early years of the Federal Republic of Germany, 1960 and 1955

• the top ace in JGIV is Eduard von Schleich, 35 victories
• the top pilot of JGIV is Robert von Greim, 3 victories
• both died very soon after WW2, 1947 and 1945

• the top ace in the Marine-JG is Theodor Osterkamp, 38 victories
• the top ace of the Marine-JG is Alexander Zenzes, 12 victories
• both died long after WW2, 1975 and 1980

Cheers,

Michael

Fate and destiny come in many forms unknown to man.

[Baracca1]

A most interesting presentation indeed, Knusel! I have no wish to hijack your post, so I will just state briefly that I call upon all of us to Remember, and, in our hearts, pay most respectful tribute to another of the great aces of The Great War, the most courageous air warrior, and extremely adept pilot, Werner Voss, who with 48 kills, ranks as both the fourth highest-scoring German ace, and tenth highest-scoring ace overall, of the First World War, and was also a fellow JG 1 pilot, very close friend--and extremely close competitor--of Manfred von Richthofen, the celebrated Red Baron, not only, with 80 kills, the leading air ace of Imperial Germany of WWI, but, also, of course, the highest-scoring ace of that entire conflict, Voss being shot down 100 years ago today by 2nd Lt. Arthur P.F. Rhys Davids, an R.F.C. ace of anywhere from 19-23 kills (I give him the benefit of the doubt, and credit him with 23), and a pilot of James T. Byford McCudden's squadron, who led six of his men, including 2nd Lt. Rhys Davids, into action against Lt. Voss that day, and who, even though Voss was, of course, an enemy, spoke most admiringly of this German-Jewish pilot who, although he did not shoot down a single one of the seven opponents he faced that day, nevertheless waged a phenomenally long battle against his foes, and succeeded in accomplishing the impossible task of placing bullets in every one of his opponents' airplanes, causing McCudden to state (as best as I can remember this statement of one of England's top air aces, a pilot credited with 58 kills): "As long as I live, I will never forget the courage of that German pilot. He was one of the greatest airmen that it has been my privilege to fight in this conflict." You were a most valiant man and a truly great patriot, Lt. Werner Voss. Rejoice in your eternal stay in Valhalla with all of the rest of history's greatest military heroes of all nations.

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by Baracca1

... this German-Jewish pilot ....

From "September Evening" by Barry Diggens, Grub Street, 2003:

" ... Max Voss ... married his childhood sweetheart Mathilde Pastor; a staunch Evangelical Lutheran who took her faith seriously. It has been intimated in several histories that the Voss family were non-practicing Jews, but this has no foundation in truth, and though there was at least one Jewish family of the same name living in Krefeld during the 1930's they were not related ... "


Tony

[Barrett]

I compiled a list of the leading scores in various units when I was secretary of the fighter aces assn. Ignored before-and-after victories to focus on the individual's contribution to that squadron/group, which I still believe is a more useful figure when studying specific units.

[Baracca1]

Mastiff, in composing my tribute post to Werner Voss to mark the 100th anniversary of his death, I recalled what had been written of the great fighter ace in the biographical entry devoted to him in Arch Whitehouse's "Heroes of The Sunlit Sky" (Curtiss Books, 1967), in which it was claimed that, on Voss's own birth certificate, his father's religion was declared to be Jewish. Does Barry Diggens specifically refute Whitehouse's claim? However, it must be said that, under Jewish religious law itself, Werner Voss would not be considered a Jew, as Judaism is exclusively matrilineal in its determination of heritage, and--if Mr. Whitehouse is right--only Werner's father is Jewish. Speaking of Mr. Whitehouse, does anyone know why he bears Manfred von Richthofen the great hatred that he did?