Bishop's Neiuport 17

Does anyone know if Bishop's Neiuport 17 was really silver? In the pictures I've seen it appears to natural linen.
Al, maybe you can help me on this?

[Billy_Bishop]

According to all the information I have, his Nieuport 17 was indeed painted silver. The best source was Bishop himself who referred to his favorite as "Old Silversides". The only exception to this was at various times the cowl was painted blue, and he also had a spinner attached that was blue as well.

Wow,it's been a long time since i posted anything

HERE HERE GOOD BOY! I do believe bishop's plane was white
with the spinner painted blue.

Since Nieuports of the time were silver as a factory-finish, and the British were strictly against applying personal liveries (outside of recognized squadron markings), I see no reason to assume that Bishop's B1566 was anything but that. Photos of Nieuports in service reinforce the idea, since virtually all retain the factory finish (an aluminum-oxide based colour, if memory serves?). Obviously, I'm referring to the overall finish--the aluminum cowling was painted blue later, and the blue spinner from a captured German two-seater being added later still. Bishop was given liberties in this area, as were many, but still in subtle ways compared to their German counterparts.

Incidentally, it's interesting to note that Bishop flew B1566 for many months, until they were taken out of service and replaced with S.E.'s. Basically, he had the same individual aircraft for its entire service and used it almost daily (he did fly other Nieuports now and again). This is worth keeping in mind when you read how Bishop, like Richthofen and others, was supposed to be a "poor pilot." If so, how did he manage to fly one machine through so many months of combat missions without writing it off? It also says something about the quality of the airframes of the time; properly maintained, they weren't worn out and thrown away so quickly as is commonly believed!

Thanks guys!
Jeni

[Billy_Bishop]

Actually, from what I've read, Bishop wasn't a bad pilot, he was simply bad a landing. That was apparently his real hangup. In fact, he nearly got sent back for more training when he cracked up in front of the brigade commander. If not for his "last" flight where he saved Scott's life, he would have been sent back to England for re-training.

Considering that I've seen damage reports where for instance, Willie Fry landed a Nieuport 17 after losing his port lower wing, yet it was back in service a few days later. We may not know exactly how many times Bishop may have crashed B1566 yet had it repaired and ready to go the next day.

I'm not saying that he did crash it. There's no evidence to suggest this. JUST AS THERE IS NO EVIDENCE to suggest that he landed his plane and shot it up himself on June 2, 1917.

Only supposition.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Billy_Bishop]

Sorry Dan, it was silver.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Darryl]

A couple of observations.

1. "Bad Pilot" as applied to WW1 aces usually means that they were not outstanding (as may be expected from the tag "ACE") As has been pointed out it also usually applies in particular to landing. In combat fancy flying is not necessarily 1st preference. Sneeking up on him and killing him is by far preferable to a swirling dogfight. (just think how often these dogfights attracted unwanted attention from passing aircraft)

2. "bad landing" is not synonymous with "crash" .
BELIEVE ME, I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never crashed but bad landings, well....................

Any landing you walk away from is a good one.

regards

Darryl

[Billy_Bishop]

Hi Daryl:
Let me ask you, what would you think of someone referred to as a "stunt merchant"??

I should point out that it is a matter of record that Bishop did "crash" a number of aircraft on landing both during his pilot training period, and during his start as a pilot assigned to combat flight duties.

As to how many of these "crashes" totaled out the aircraft, I don't know. But he did apparently walk away from all of them.

I also know from reading various sources that Bishop himself considered his landing technique to be lacking.

Having said all that, I don't actually think he ever crashed B1566 during the time he used it in France. He did come home with it shot up. On one occasion, Walter Bourne counted over 200 bullet holes in it after one mission.

And during his time, he changed his technique of combat flying from the "stunt merchant" style to the "sneak up on them" style. This was during his first tour during which he was awarded the VC amongst others.

Although, being only a "simulator pilot" myself, I can appreciate the input of a real pilot on this particular subject.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Darryl]

Hi Al,
If I find a "real" pilot I'll ask his opinion. I just concentrate on going up and comming down *VBG*

I likewise am a mad SIM fan, starting with Mig Alley Air Ace in 1981!!!!!!! right through to RB2 before they destroyed the FM and stopped listening to anyone who wasn't a pre-pubecent Doom player (I WAS bitter for a while, but I'm OVER THAT now) I've also spent a lot of time studying the
Areodynamics and tactics of Doghfighting.

Stunt Merchants: fancy flying wins Airshows NOT dogfights. WW1 aircraft with low power to weight and high drag are not good at dogfighting despite popular belief. They bleed energy like the devil and need to lose alt in steep turns to avoid stalling.(for "steep" read 45 to 50 deg bank angle as a MAXIMUM.) Bleeding energy means you have less options, less options tends to means you can only turn again and lose more "E", downward spiral (quite literally). A case in point Lanoe Hawker's death.

Next add the physical stress that aerobatics place on your body. The most I've experienced is about 3.5 - 4 'gs" and it is like a reverse enema!!!!!!! There is also the disorienting effect of being upside down, vertical etc. Not conducive to
good SA. I doubt any of the "knife edge turn" brigade of RB2 fans have ever been in an aircraft turning steeply.
60 deg bank feels like vertical and the 2 "G's" it generates is firm enough to make it difficult to hold your hand out in front of you. Try it with you neck swivelled around to look behind. (I have not been game to try that one, half an hour of practising steep turns gives me a headache as it is).

Speed is life, it gives you options, it gives you an escape window!!!!!!!!

I won't bore the forum any longer, but if your interested Al give me an E-mail and I'll bore you privately at some length.

BTW, I've spent some time doing aero's in a Tigermoth and
they are more sturdy than a Camel. It is still a wild ride!!!

Very best regards

Darryl