Camel at The University of Toronto circa 1918

[snipe]

This image is from the University of Toronto Archives, where it is titled "Airplane in front of University College" and is dated "ca. 1918." The description of the image is "Airplane is a Sopwith Camel."

I blew up the original digital image (TIFF format, 2100x1400, 8 bits/pixel) and it looks like the serial number ends in x772, with the "x" being either a "5" or a "3".

I found an article in Flight Magazine that might shed some light on it. The article is "Sopwith Camel Part 2, Historic Military Aircraft No. 10" by J.M. Bruce. It was published in Flight, 29 April 1955. On page 563 there's a section on Known Serial Numbers, in which it is indicated that the F.1 Camel serial numbers B.3751-3950 were built by Sopwith. There is no suggestion that there was a serial number B.5772. A few paragraphs later on the same page, under the heading "Notes on Individual Machines" there is a sub-heading "Details of Other Machines" under which I found "B.3772: sold to USA".

I'd guess the machine is in fact B.3772. The building in the background is University College at The University of Toronto. In the original image (cropped to fit an 8x10 print) there is a bit of a tree visible on the left edge, with foliage on it. That plus the position of the shadow under the aircraft, suggests to me it was shot in the late spring or summer around noon.

If anyone has any further information on this aircraft, I'd be interested.

[MikeMeech]

Originally Posted by snipe

This image is from the University of Toronto Archives, where it is titled "Airplane in front of University College" and is dated "ca. 1918." The description of the image is "Airplane is a Sopwith Camel."

I blew up the original digital image (TIFF format, 2100x1400, 8 bits/pixel) and it looks like the serial number ends in x772, with the "x" being either a "5" or a "3".

I found an article in Flight Magazine that might shed some light on it. The article is "Sopwith Camel Part 2, Historic Military Aircraft No. 10" by J.M. Bruce. It was published in Flight, 29 April 1955. On page 563 there's a section on Known Serial Numbers, in which it is indicated that the F.1 Camel serial numbers B.3751-3950 were built by Sopwith. There is no suggestion that there was a serial number B.5772. A few paragraphs later on the same page, under the heading "Notes on Individual Machines" there is a sub-heading "Details of Other Machines" under which I found "B.3772: sold to USA".

I'd guess the machine is in fact B.3772. The building in the background is University College at The University of Toronto. In the original image (cropped to fit an 8x10 print) there is a bit of a tree visible on the left edge, with foliage on it. That plus the position of the shadow under the aircraft, suggests to me it was shot in the late spring or summer around noon.

If anyone has any further information on this aircraft, I'd be interested.

Hi

According to 'Sopwith Camel - King of Combat' by Chaz Bowyer, page 180, the Camels that went to Canada were:
B3772, F1337, F6310 (G-CYFR), F6473 (G-CYFQ), F6481 (G-CYFP), N7357, N7359, N7364, N7367, N7369, N8151, N8153, N8156, N8204.

I hope that is of interest.
Mike

[MASTIFF]

From Bruce Robertson in "British Military Aircraft Serials 1911-1971":

B3751 - B3950, batch of 200 Sopwith 1F.1 Camels. Sopwith -built, 130hp Clerget engine as general power unit. B3772 shipped to Canada. B3801 converted to 2-seater. B3891 had 150hp Gnome engine fitted.

Cheers,
Tony

[regular122]

B5772 would have been an Armstrong Whitworth FK8. So that rules that out.

The only thing I can add is that it B3772 was part of the 200 ship contract no. AS6175. The contract spanned late May to early August 1917. This machine was taken on charge on June 9th, 1917 with shipment to Canada.

There is no record of it ever being damaged or struck off charge. So, it must have remained in the inventory for some time as an example of the new type for Canadian familiarity would be my guess. Wonderful picture. Steve

[regular122]

I wonder where this machine is now? Steve

[snipe]

Originally Posted by regular122

I wonder where this machine is now? Steve

Well, I've worked at UofT these past 29 years and I've never spotted it

I tracked down another reference. Apparently there's a picture of it in Cross & Cockade International, Volume 15 (1984) Issue 3 on page 111. I'll have to see if we have that issue in the library at the GWFM.

University College looks much as it used to, but there's a lot more ivy on the facade and the trees are somewhat larger....

[Ransom E. Olds]

I can't manage to see an engine in the cowling. Comments? Ransom

[CMawson]

Originally Posted by Ransom E. Olds

I can't manage to see an engine in the cowling. Comments? Ransom

I was wondering about that, too. At that angle, the engine should be clearly visible.

I am also wondering about the propeller, it looks like one made by Lang Propellers, for a Sopwith Triplane. Any ideas?

[snipe]

The original image (TIFF format from a glass plate negative) is pretty high resolution. When blown up, it almost looks as if there's a flat panel mounted in the cowl. No hub, no mounting bolts. Just a shaft.

[MASTIFF]

The guns look to be mock-ups also.