What two-seater did Manfred von Richthofen fly before he joined Jasta 2?

[antares]

MvR flew a two-seater over the Western Front (Verdun?) in 1916 before he joined Jasta 2. What type was it? Albatros? Aviatik? DFW? LVG? Roland? Rumpler?

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by antares

MvR flew a two-seater over the Western Front (Verdun?) in 1916 before he joined Jasta 2. What type was it? Albatros? Aviatik? DFW? LVG? Roland? Rumpler?

On 26 April 1916, MvR flew a C-type Albatros on his early patrol. He claimed a Nieuport which fell in a forest behind Fort Douaumont, for which he did not receive confirmation.

This info from "Red Baron, the Life and Death of an Ace" by Peter Kilduff.

Cheers,
Tony

[Gregvan]

Hi There,
I would heartily recommend the books The Blue Max Airmen, German Airmen awarded the PLM, Volume 5 - Manfred von Richthofen by Lance Bronnenkant, PhD. (2014), as well as Jim Miller's Inside the Victories of Manfred von Richthofen, Comprehensive Victory Summaries and Combat Statistics, Volumes 1 and 2, for the latest information about the two-seaters (and fighters) flown by von Richthofen.

Also, Jim Miller's book Manfred von Richthofen - The Aircraft, Myths,and Accomplishments of the 'Red Baron' from Chevron, 2009.

Briefly - we know that MvR flew as an observer in an AEG G.II in Brieftauben-Abteilung Ostende in August-November 1915 (edited and corrected).

As a pilot in Kasta 8 at Verdun in April - June 1916, he most likely flew an LVG C.II, and certainly Roland C.II Walfisch aircraft - though there is still uncertainty about which of the Rolands in the famous line-up photos that he flew.

In the summer of 1916, still in Kasta 8, he flew "my good Albatros" through a thunderstorm - type unknown, perhaps a C.III.

After Kasta 8 arrived at Kowel on the Eastern Front, a photo shows both Albatros C.III and a Rumpler C.I aircraft on strength.

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Briefly - we know that MvR flew as an observer in an AEG G.II in Brieftauben-Abteilung Ostende in August-November 1916.

Hi Greg,

Should that read 1915? I believe he was with KG2 on the Verdun front in March 1916 and with Js2 on 1 Sept 1916.

Cheers,
Tony

[Gregvan]

Yup, Mastiff, you caught me. I was in too much of a hurry. I've edited my post - thanks.
Greg

[CjBobrow]

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Hi There,
I would heartily recommend the books The Blue Max Airmen, German Airmen awarded the PLM, Volume 5 - Manfred von Richthofen by Lance Bronnenkant, PhD. (2014), as well as Jim Miller's Inside the Victories of Manfred von Richthofen, Comprehensive Victory Summaries and Combat Statistics, Volumes 1 and 2, for the latest information about the two-seaters (and fighters) flown by von Richthofen.

Also, Jim Miller's book Manfred von Richthofen - The Aircraft, Myths,and Accomplishments of the 'Red Baron' from Chevron, 2009.

Briefly - we know that MvR flew as an observer in an AEG G.II in Brieftauben-Abteilung Ostende in August-November 1915 (edited and corrected).

As a pilot in Kasta 8 at Verdun in April - June 1916, he most likely flew an LVG C.II, and certainly Roland C.II Walfisch aircraft - though there is still uncertainty about which of the Rolands in the famous line-up photos that he flew.

In the summer of 1916, still in Kasta 8, he flew "my good Albatros" through a thunderstorm - type unknown, perhaps a C.III.

After Kasta 8 arrived at Kowel on the Eastern Front, a photo shows both Albatros C.III and a Rumpler C.I aircraft on strength.

From June-August 1915 he was with FFA69 on the Russfront though I'm not sure if there is a record of the aircraft he flew in as an observer, from what I've been able to discerned it seems probable there were Albatros C.III's being used in the unit at the time*... there is no mistake though his feelings about what he was doing...

"Now we are again right into completely mobile warfare. I fly over the enemy almost daily and bring back reports. I reported the retreat of the Russians three days ago. It is so much more fun for me. . .I am especially happy to be right here, in the most important theater of operations, and to be able to participate in it."

Manfred von Richthofen
Letter of 20 July 1915 during service as a Russfront [Eastern Front] aerial observer

Red Baron - The Life and Death of an Ace
By Peter Kilduff Pg.43

*if anyone has good information on aircraft used by FFA69 for this period please post details!

[josef scott]

As the Albatros C.III did not start arriving at the front until December 1915, he could not have been flying one of these. Only the very first C-types began populating the FFA's during that summer, so a C.I is possible. However, as FFA69 was on the Eastern front it seems more probable that he was flying in a B-type. Lance Bronnenkant's book suggests that the unit was equipped with Aviatik and Kondor aircraft at the time.

[JFM]

Hey, guys!

To add to this thread, in MvR's book he mentions flying a "C-type airplane" in Russia during summer 1916, which carried four bombs (he describes carrying four and bombing Russian troops with them). He said the plane had "one-hundred-fifty 'horses'," i.e., engine horsepower. I've seen figures for the Alb C.I and C.II having either a 150 or 160 hp engine. The B.I had a host of engines, from 75-150 hp, and B.II engines were 100-120 hp. (I know specs are all over the place between sources, so chime in.) He also refers to his plane having "machine guns," plural, although he mentions his observer firing "the machine gun," single. Is this discrepancy a typo, or does it suggest an airplane equipped with a forward-firing weapon, such as the Alb C.III? Coupled with that photo of Alb C.IIIs in Russia that Greg mentioned, perhaps the latter. But I can't say absotively.