Searching for Karl Ahlefeldt

Chris Heal · 18 December 2016, 12:14 PM

Hello

I am a complete novice on the German WW1 air force. Any prompts, etc, would be most appreciated. I am looking for any information on, or background on:

Leutnant d. Res. Graf Karl Christian von Ahlefeldt (born 13/1/1891 Dresden, died 1/4/1916 Douaumont) found on the denkmalprojekt.org website. He was in the fighter plane division. His unit was Füs.R. 86. Presumably Douaumont means the Battle of Verdun - timing seems right.

Thank you
Chris Heal

Raineranton · 18 December 2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Heal

Hello

I am a complete novice on the German WW1 air force. Any prompts, etc, would be most appreciated. I am looking for any information on, or background on:

Leutnant d. Res. Graf Karl Christian von Ahlefeldt (born 13/1/1891 Dresden, died 1/4/1916 Douaumont) found on the denkmalprojekt.org website. He was in the fighter plane division. His unit was Füs.R. 86. Presumably Douaumont means the Battle of Verdun - timing seems right.

Thank you
Chris Heal

Hi Chris,

according to Casualties of the German Air Service he was an observer and flew with Kagohl 2 when he died at Doaumont this day.

Regards

Rainer

Jos · 19 December 2016, 02:54 AM

Hello Chris,

His victor was probably Sgt. Lucien Jailler (Escadrille N 15).

Regards,

Jos

Chris Heal · 19 December 2016, 06:26 AM

Thank you very much Jos and Rainer for your quick and helpful responses. I see you are both experts of some stature. Do either of you know whether Ahlefeldt's pilot was also killed and who he was?

Fumbling around on the internet, I imagined that Ahlefeldt may have been in a Roland C.II and Jaillier in a Nieuport 17. What do you think?

Best wishes
Chris

Seeflieger · 19 December 2016, 12:56 PM

Hi Chris,
as he stems from a very old and well respected line of nobility in Denmark and Schleswig, it seems to have been a natural choice to serve with the Füsilier Regiment 86, of which the wife of Wilhelm II was commander in chief. They were based in Flensburg at the start of WWI fought on the Western Front and suffered heavy losses. A branch of the family still owns land in Schleswig-Holstein.
Seeflieger

Chris Heal · 20 December 2016, 02:55 AM

Thank you, Seeflieger, for this useful insight. From what you say (and from the internet), the regiment mobilised on 2 August 1914 with departure for Belgium on 8 August from Flensburg (and Sonderburg?).

I should share a little more about this 'flier' for those who may be interested: Graf Karl von Ahlefeldt married at Stettin on 3 August Eva Marx, the daughter of a consul and prominent banker. The certificate carries no ages (actually 23 and 19), no places of birth, no parents' names. It would seem it might have been a quickly-arranged ceremony brought on by the call for mobilisation; there was a pressing need for Ahlefeldt to get from Stettin to Flensburg. I also see that Ahlefeldt's regiment fought from Liege to the Marne before falling back and settling into the trenches in 1915 (Moulin, Quennevières Farm, Dreslincourt, Pimprez). At some time, Ahlefeldt transferred to air duties.

My personal concern comes about because Gräfin Eva von Ahlefeldt married again in 1919 to Oberleutnant z.S. Erich Gerth, an ex-u-boat commander who scuttled his boat (UC 53) at Pula at the end of the war. It is what happened next to this pair that is a part-subject of a book I am currently writing.

Any more thoughts / information, especially about Ahlefeldt's time in the air war, will be gratefully received. I admit that I woke up a few days ago with a tune in my head. After a few hours I recognised it - the 'Elvira Madigan' theme.

Chris Heal

Seeflieger · 20 December 2016, 01:43 PM

Hi,
I did a little research about your Leutnant der Reserve and got help from a friend with an ancestry license.
I think we found some interesting info for you.
1.) The Leutnant Karl von Ahlefeldt you mentioned from the denkmalprojekt.org site, seems, at first sight, not identical with Karl-Christian, Graf von Ahlefeldt-Eckesmark who married Ms Eva Marx as you state. The von Ahlefeldt in the denkmal-list was born 3rd June1897 in Olpenitz near Eckernförde and died 12th Sept.1916 in St. Quentin.
The latter (Karl-Christian) was born, as you yourself write correctly, 1891 in Dresden and died on the 1st April 1916.
HOWEVER: There is no Karl listed in the official German lists of loss, though there are 14 other von Ahlefeldts mentioned (not included Ahlefeldt-Brockdorf).
One of them is a Sophus v. Ahlefeld who was born in Olpenitz (same town as given in denkmalprojekt for Karl). He served with the RIR 86 which is not identical with the FR 86, although it was also from Flensburg it has nothing in common with FR 86 except the number and garison.
The death of Karl-Christian is listed officially in the Armee Verordnungs Listen. And here is the interesting bit: he is indeed listed as originating from FR 86 and active in the Feldfliegertruppe, KIA, listed 15.04.1916. Usually it took at least four to five weeks until the public was informed of the wound/loss. But it is very probable that it is the same Graf (your Graf) that was killed on the 1st April 1916. Why he is not listed in the regimental history - or listed with wrong data and incomplete name is beyond me.

He is listed as Leutnant der Reserve on his marriage certificate from Stettin. Interestingly he was married in the garison church of this town. This could either mean that he was part of a regiment stationed at Stettin at that time (3rd August 1914) or that his wife came from there (in Germany in those days it was common practice to get married in the hometown of the bride), and they wanted to accentuate the military touch by getting married in a church that was used by the military. Or both. The status of him as Lt. d. Reserve makes it more probable that on the 3rd August he was still inactive but got called to his regiment in Flensburg with wich he had served during peace-time.
2.) I was able to have a look at the birth certificate of Graf Karl-Christian and can therefore supply you with his parents names.
Mother: Franziska Eugenie Elisabeth Katharina Adelaide Carola Gräfin Ahlefeldt-Eckelsmark, neé von Dresky
Father: Konrad Graf Ahlefeldt-Eckesmarck.
The father was last listed in Dresden 1896, but other v. Ahlefeldts still lived in Dresden for a while after that.

Karl-Christian seems to have had a sibling who was also born in Dresden.

A funny note on the side, that really characterises German civil servants´ thoroughness:
Eighteen (!) years later the official document of the birth certificate was corrected: The name Karl Christian (as written down in 1891) was officially changed to Karl-Christian (hyphen!) on the Kaiser´s birthday in 1909. And it needed a court-order to place the hyphen!

I hope that helps you a bit along the way.
Seeflieger

Jos · 20 December 2016, 02:01 PM

Hello Chris,

Von Ahlefeldt was flying in a L.V.G. C.
Lucien Jailler was flying (probably) in a Nieuport 11.

The picture is from http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escad...adrille015.htm

Regards,

Jos

Seeflieger · 20 December 2016, 02:28 PM

Hi Chris,
was Eva´s father Georg(e) Marx, owner of Norddeutsche Creditanstalt?
Seeflieger

Seeflieger · 20 December 2016, 03:28 PM

Karl-Christian v. A.´s mother (neé Dresky) was probably related to this guy,
http://uboat.net/men/commanders/216.html
a submarine commander KIA in 1940. Thought, I mention it because of the sub-connection.
Besides that, there were a few high ranking officers on his mother´s side of the family tree:

Erich von Dresky (1850–1918), deutscher Vizeadmiral
Eugen von Dresky (1831–1892), preußischer Generalmajor
Gotthardt von Dresky (1844–1912), preußischer Generalleutnant
Rudolf von Dresky (1776–1852), preußischer Generalmajor
Justus von Dresky und Merzdorf (1818–1899), preußischer General
der Artillerie

Seeflieger