Erich Loewenhardt Fokker D VIII victories

mozit · 16 November 2016, 04:09 AM

Hi. I am looking at building Loewenhardt's D VIII and would like to know if he scored any victories with it.
Roden's box info says there was only one confirmed victory by Emil Rolff, whereas Wiki says he scored several in it.
Does anyone have any info on this?
Thanks

Volker_Nemsch · 16 November 2016, 07:59 AM

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Jasta 10 was equipped with the new Fokker D.VII since May 1918 and Erich Löwenhardt was already an ace with 10 - 20 victories and so it seems logical that he received one of the first machines of that type.

He was killed on 10. August 1918 and so I'm sure that most of the victories during the last 2 - 3 months of his career were scored while flying the most advanced fighter aircraft available. There's no reason why he should have used the outdated Albatros or Pfalz machines instead.

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mozit · 17 November 2016, 02:37 AM

Thank you Volker. I agree with the view that he may well have been flying the latest machine available, but do you have any info which confirms that Jasta 10 received any Fokker D VIIIs (aka E.V)?
Thanks

Volker_Nemsch · 17 November 2016, 10:02 AM

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According to Wikipedia, Jasta 10 received "a few Fokker D.VIIIs" and it is also mentioned that Löwenhardt scored with such an aircraft while serving with Jasta 5 (before the end of June 1918). I have to admit, that I have no idea how reliable this online-encyclopaedia is in this connection. At least the English "WW1 aviation-related articles" are often much more detailed than the German ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.VIII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdstaffel_10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_L%C3%B6wenhardt

Maybe other Forumites have better information...

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Eric Petras · 18 November 2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volker_Nemsch

.
According to Wikipedia, Jasta 10 received "a few Fokker D.VIIIs" and it is also mentioned that Löwenhardt scored with such an aircraft while serving with Jasta 5 (before the end of June 1918). I have to admit, that I have no idea how reliable this online-encyclopaedia is in this connection. At least the English "WW1 aviation-related articles" are often much more detailed than the German ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.VIII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdstaffel_10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_L%C3%B6wenhardt

Maybe other Forumites have better information...

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As Erich Löwenhardt did not fly as a member of Jasta 5 (he was in Jasta 10), Wikipedia is up to it's usual standard of inaccuracy.
Also the first E.V's did not reach front line Jastas until July, so a victory in late June seems out of possibility. The first recorded victory by an E.V pilot is purportedly by Emil Rolff of Jasta 6 in August 1918.

mozit · 18 November 2016, 06:28 PM

I don't think Loewenhardt was ever with Jasta 5, so I'd probably forgive that as a typo, unless the author is getting his airmen mixed up.
I guess the question really is - did Jasta 10 get any Fokker D.VIIIs?
If the first VIIIs were delivered to Jasta 6 late in July 1918, then when did Jasta 10 receive theirs, if at all?
Loewenhardt's victories near that period were 1 on 28/7, 1 on 29/7, 2 on 30/7, 3 on 8/8, 2 on 9/8 and the last in what is suggested was a yellow VII on 10/8.
Do we know any more about the kills from 28/7 to 9/8?

Gregvan · 18 November 2016, 07:55 PM

Hello,

There is one, repeat one, photo of Erich Loewenhardt taking a Jasta 6 Fokker E.V for a test flight. In JG I, Jasta 6 was the only unit to receive Fokker E.V's, and they didn't fly them for long. Apparently, Loewenhardt, the commander of Jasta 10, took the opportunity to test fly one of them. The photo shows it in flight, and in full classic Jasta 6 markings.

The Roden company took their inspiration from that one photo, and marketed their Fokker E.V model as "Erich Loewenhardt's". But he was only giving it a test flight. I'm reasonably certain that he never flew the type in combat, and he certainly did not score any victories in the type. Jasta 10 was never equipped with any E.V's.

In fact, as you note, the only confirmed victory we know of for a Fokker E.V is Emil Rolff's victory of 16 August 1918 (a Camel at 1230 hrs, near Mesnil) - that is described in Richard Wenzl's book Richthofen Flieger. Ironically, Rolff was killed due to wing failure of his E.V only three days later - one of the two fatal accidents involving E.V's that grounded the type.

I can state pretty confidently that Loewenhardt's victories in the summer of 1918 were all scored in various Fokker D.VII's. Once he had a BMW-engined D.VII, he wouldn't have bothered flying an E.V in combat at any rate.

By the time that any of the re-designated Fokker D.VIII's (D.8's) with newly-reinforced wings, etc arrived at the front the war was basically over. As Peter Grosz stated in his Fokker E.V/D.VIII Datafile, it's unlikely that any Fokker D.VIII's were used in combat in WWI.

Sorry, but those are the most likely facts.
Greg

mozit · 19 November 2016, 06:18 PM

Hello Greg. Thank you for your detailed reply.
I was suspicious of Roden's claim, and the arguments you put forward are persuasive and sound much more likely.
I think I'll call this solved now.
Thanks again.

Barrett · 25 November 2016, 10:22 AM

Sidebar:

I was fortunate/blessed to work with and for the late-great Doug Champlin, and his WW I collection included a reproduction D.VIII. (It had a rotary but I forget which variety--not an Obereusel.) Thing I remember best is that by stretching my neck, I could see over the top of the wing. And in those days (1980s) I was at my personal best: 5-ft-8.