Question regarding specific German pilot shot down

[debaguley]

Hello to all,
I am trying to find out a specific pilot & crew, plus the plane they were flying to complete some research. I am writing a book and one of the chapters is about the 108th Company D from Oswego, NY. One of the men, William Monaghan shot down a German plane on Sept 29th with his rifle from the ground. This feat was recorded in several letters home and reported in several newspapers. Plus Monaghan received a promotion. One article stated that the pilot was a Major and that there were 3 other Germans as part of the crew. Wouldn't that suggest a larger plane like a bomber? The articles and letters stated that the German plane was straffing the soldiers in the trench. It was said to be at the Battle of Duck Valley but I have never found any mention of this battle other than in old local newspaper articles.

I'm wondering if anyone can identify the pilot, his crew and what type of plane they were flying. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Doug Bigelow

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by debaguley

I'm wondering if anyone can identify the pilot, his crew and what type of plane they were flying. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Doug and welcome to the forum. I can't give you what you are looking for, but I can tell you what is NOT there.

The book "Casualties of the German Air Service" does not show a Major KIA on that date. Nor does it show a 3-or-4 man crew KIA. That does not mean that a crew wasn't brought down alive, of course.

Although it is possible that a rifleman might have brought down an aircraft, the odds are pretty long, I think. Now, if he had been an Australian with a machine gun......just saying....

Hopefully one of the "who got who" wizards on the Forum can further your search.

Cheers,
Tony

[Froggy]

Bonjour

here one speak of "the Battle of Duck Valley " and 108th on 29 september 1918

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ny...NLIUS/WWIA.HTM
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-06/1243899700

"Following the main battle of Duck Valley on September 29th-October 2d, when the Hindenburg line was pierced for the first time, the 108th infantry returned to the line October 14th and again on October 17th. It was withdrawn from action October 21st and so far as can be learned it has been in no engagement since that time."

[Volker_Nemsch]

.
...(probably) shot down on that day by Mr. William Monaghan must have been one of the German G-class bombers, since - as far as I know - a crew of "more than 2" would exclude all "C-class" and CL-class" aircraft (1 pilot and 1 gunner or observer) as well as all "D-class" aircraft (1 pilot).


Is it possible that an AEG G.IV or G.V was lost on that day in that area? At least I think, that the bigger machines produced by Gotha and Friedrichshafen were not used in such a way, that a normal bullet from a rifle could do any harm.

.

[debaguley]

Thank you gentlemen. It does seem like a remarkable, unlikely shot. It was reported in several letters home by Monaghan and another of his comrades. It was also reported in several newspaper articles but having done a lot of research on this era, erroneous newspaper articles are not that rare. I wouldn't think a bomber would strafe soldiers in the trench. It was said that 20 German soldiers were machine gunned down when they attempted to rescue the flyers after they crashed in "no mans" land. One thing that makes me lead towards believing the story is that although Monaghan was killed a few weeks later, and buried in France, many of his fellow neighbors returned to the city of Oswego after the war. Company D was made up of about 150 of the locals. A VFW post was named after Monaghan and a mural was painted there of him shooting down the plane. I would think if the story was false someone would have protested since there were so many locals there.

[regular122]

Corporal Monaghan must have done something that day, as he is cited in divisional citations in Special Order 86 as follows but incorrectly listed as 105th regiment:

CORPORAL WILLIAM S. MONAGHAN, Company D, 105th Infantry. S.O. 86

For extraordinary courage and coolness under heavy fire, continuously displayed east of Ronssoy, France, during the battle of the Hindenburg Line, September 29, 1918.

1st Battalion, 108th Regiment reports do mention enemy aeroplanes on 27 September but only as being active. Could find nothing in 1st Battalion, 108th Infantry reports relating to aircraft for 29 September, the day the attack launched and on which Monaghan is cited. Here is their combat report for that day:

1st Battalion from E.30.C.6.4, Templeux le Guerard, 2:20 A. M., to front line at F.29.b.0.5., 5:30 A.M., four miles. 10,000 rounds S.A.A. and 800 grenades in combat train. One day’s rations and forage with troops. Eleven officers and 350 men available for all duty.

Battalion took part in divisional attack. Left bivouac at 2:20 A.M., arrived in front line 5:30 A.M., went over the top under barrage as moppers up with 2d and 3d Battalions,106th Infantry, at 6:15 A.M. Suffered heavy casualties from machine-gun nests. At 11 A.M. Australian Division passed through and attacked the enemy to our front. 5 P.M. Battalion was assembled in three platoons and assigned to Australian Battalion.

1:30 A.M. Movement order from bivouac to front line. 5:45 A.M. V.O.c.O, for advance over the top. 3:38 P. M. Field message. Order to consolidate battalion with British Battalion.

Weather, rainy; roads, bad; health, good. Losses: Thirty-two men killed, one officer and eighty-five men wounded, 147 men missing.

A few important pieces of info though. Duck Valley or Alley has to be somewhere near F.29.b.0.5 in the vicinity of Ronssoy. Unit was operating with Australians by mid day. Weather was lousy but both sides were known to fly ground attack missions under low clouds on bad weather days if it was an extreme emergency, but being more a British practice than allied or German.

Monaghan is listed as a Sergeant when killed a few weeks later:

Monaghan, William S., 1214108, Sergeant, Co. D, 108 Inf., | Oct. 17 K | St. Souplet, B-2-2

I could only find two incidents for the entire 27th Division where citations in orders were involved related to enemy aeroplanes being shot from the ground. None occurred on 29 September. There may be others.

MESS SERGEANT HENDRICUS WIPPRECHT (1207817), Company G, 106th Infantry. S.O. 44

For courage and skill in operation of a Lewis machine gun against a low flying enemy aeroplane. This in the battle of the Hindenburg Line, September 27, 1918.

CORPORAL LELAND B. HALL, Battery F, 104th Field Artillery. S.O. 86

For conspicuous gallantry in action in the vicinity of Germonville, France, September 25, 1918, in bringing down a German aeroplane by the fire of a machine gun with which he was guarding an ammunition dump, being later wounded himself.

So, at least you know Sergeant Monaghan did something gallant on 29 September, 1918, was promoted, and you can also figure out that Duck Valley must be near Ronssoy. Hopefully, some of this will help you solve it. Steve