Herman Goering's Albatros upper wing chevrons

[elephant]

I found this photo in:

http://www.buddecke.de/fotos.htm



Pilots of Jasta 27 in winter '17-'18...
CO Herman Goering on his D.V

I hadn't seen before this Goering's D.V...
The paint scheme seems to combine features of his former D.IIIs and D.Vs.
Looks like the fuselage is black with a white tail section but is the whole engine hood painted white as well?
(or it's just sun glare?)
The wings seems to be of lozenge fabric? but what about the (roughly painted) stripes on top?
The white parts (chevrons) look identical to his old D.III ones but what about inner colour?



that upper wing chevron pattern is so similar to his well known D.III's one,
when he was first commissioned CO of Jasta 27...
(extreme right, on the foreground)

pic scanned from Peter Kilduff's book on Goering

Greg van Vyngarden's interpretation of Goering's chevrons from the same book implies no inner colour...

Here is a colour profile by R.N. Dearson of Greg's interpretation



Now that I see his D.III again with the Buddecke site pic in mind,
I can tell that a colour should be painted as well between the white lines,
as I can't see the factory camo in between...
particularly on the left side where the under-imposed colour is the Venetian Red.
What this mystery colour would be?
He was a Bavarian, could it be Bavarian Blue?



modification by me...
the inner blue should actually be broader, but just to establish my point...
What do you think of this?

[Gregvan]

Hi There,

Yup, mea culpa. I hadn't seen Tobais Weber's fine photo (which looks like a D.III to me) when the artwork for Peter Kilduff's book was done, a long time ago.

I think it's pretty obvious that there was a dark color in between the white stripes. My guess is simply black.

Greg

[Romani]

Originally Posted by elephant

the inner blue should actually be broader, but just to establish my point...
What do you think of this?

It does seems to be a different color than black, it has different reflective properties. By comparison with the blue of British insignia in a variety of photos with different lighting, I think it is not black at all.

Not Bavarian blue, but likely the same paint as used for undersurface blue. There would still be some cans around before the switch to lozenge fabric. Göring did like the color, I recalled that in latter life he had a customized sky blue uniform, and looking for a photo I found he wore it when he surrendered at the end of WWII.

EDIT: better pics






On the cowling, no reason it should be white, it should be factory finish grey.

[elephant]

Thanks for the responce, Greg!
The plane in the Tobias Weber photo is definitely a D.V
(it can be identified by the aileron chute on the upper wing cross)
I would still be sceptical about your logical guess for a black inner colour, though...
In both photos with the chevrons there is a lot of glare involved making the guesswork much more difficult...
in the Weber photo the inner colour appears lighter than the black of the cross.
In the line up pic of the D.III although the upper crosses seem faded the inner colour seems significaly lighter than the Venetian Red...
You have a lot better images than my modest scanned ones, to make a safer estimation, Greg
Thanks again!

[elephant]

Originally Posted by Romani

On the cowling, no reason it should be white, it should be factory finish grey.

Thanks Romani,
That would be my guess also if I couldn't see the tail section that seems to be painted white as Goering's previous mounts...
could this one be similar to the D.III above and his previous D.V?

[elephant]

Additional circumstancial evidence that indicating that the plane should have been painted along the lines of previous mounts with the exception that the whole engine cowling covers this time have been painted white are:
If the cowling cover was factory grey the same colour should have been the machine gun chute as well as the other metallic fittings and vents and IMHO they don't seem to...
Also the wheel cover that is partialy visible seems to be painted white too.

[R Gannon]

Just a point on these chevrons which can be seen on the top wings of the machines of other German commanders / kette leaders. They are not there for colourful decoration but for command and control purpose - so as to allow the other pilots to line up on them in a V formation.

Although there is no photo - the German pilot shot down by JTB McCudden on 18 Feb 18 and identified as 'Green Tail' (actually on the day Js 35's Uffz Kaiser kia - but likely otherwise referring to Js 5's Konnecke) is recorded by JTB as having an inverted V on the top wing.

Cheers Russ

[Pips]

Slightly off track, but I can't get over the size of von der Weppen. He is head and shoulders above anyone else.

How on earth did he fit into a cramped cockpit? Especially with all that winter flying gear on?