Rodney Williams Victories- 17th Aero Squadron

[regular122]

Rodney D. Williams seems to be a very forgotten Ace. He is listed as a 5 Victory Ace (4 aircraft /1 Balloon) in Thayer’s history and in Table II of Hudson’s “Hostile Skies,” and Reed and Rowland’s “Camel Drivers.” He is also in the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame as an Ace and his collection of papers reside in Wisconsin. To the best of my knowledge, the US Air Force Offical Credit list has him at 5 victories. Yet this site and some historians list him with only 4 victories.

All of his victories seem to have been achieved while flying in Sopwith Camel D6595 with the 17th Aero Squadron that operated with the British from June until October, 1918.

Franks incorrectly lists Williams in 'Who Downed the Aces in WWI?' as having been downed in the famous dogfight of 26 August 1918. He had actually been shot up pretty severely on his last dogfight on 23 August 1918 and his incredible feat of flying with a leaky petrol tank and severe wounds earned him a British 'Mention in Dispatches.' He managed to save his faithful Camel, which was repaired in time for Robert Todd to take it up and score his final victory with it before being shot down and captured on 26 August 1918, thus ending the career of both Camel and pilot.

Curiously, according to 'Camel Drivers,' Williams was credited with a victory on 22 Sep 1918 even though he was still convalescing from wounds in a hospital. The authors speculate it may have been an error or later confirmation of a previous victory.

As best as I can determine, the following would have been his victory list:

1 -- 20 Jul 18, 0945, Sopwith Camel (D6595) vs Fokker D.VII (DES), Near Ostend

2 -- 20 Jul 18, 1000, Sopwith Camel (D6595) vs Fokker D.VII (DES), Near Ostend (confirmed by William Tipton but credit remains uncertain)

3 -- 9 Aug 18, 0845, Sopwith Camel (D6595) vs Siemens Biplane (DES), Near Bailleul

4 -- 12 Aug 18, 1115, Sopwith Camel (D6595) vs Fokker D.VII (DES), Heyst

5 -- 22 Aug 1918, 0955, Sopwith Camel (D6595) vs Balloon (DES), 57C H22

I do not know if the above is accurate. Was there another victory in lieu of one of the above? Was his total 5 and one unconfirmed? Any help is appreciated. Steve

[Graeme]

Study 133 credits Williams with four victories - 20 July, 9, 21 and 22 August.

I have located combat reports suggesting four claims, resulting in three victories:

20 July 1918 - a Fokker DVII out of control east of Ostende; Williams' combat report reads "Our formation encountered five Fokker biplanes near Ostend. They were at about 21000 feet. We were at 20000, but fought down to 16000 or 17000. Fired several bursts at rather long range, 150-200 yards, at two different machines. One seemed to be hit as tracer bullet seemed to explode in fuselage back of pilot. He went down under control.

One other Fokker dove on me firing short burst. Manoeuvred so that I was only about twenty-five yards to his left rear, as he was making a slow climbing turn; gave him a burst of forty or fifty bullets which appeared to enter his machine at pilot's seat. He turned on his back and fell straight out of sight, apparently out of control."

Although claimed as one driven down under control and one destroyed, it seems this was allowed only as one "out of control".

Scout out of control on 9 August 1918; Remarks: Three scouts, apparently of new type with no overhang and tails rather like Camels, short flat nose that looked like rotary motor, going north. Guns firing forward, speed about same as Camel. Performance not as good.

While on O.P. at 8:40-8:45 a. m. this date, I became separated from our formation, which was split up in fight near Lille, and while trying to overtake it I was cut off by three scouts which appeared about 400 feet above me. I turned and attacked leader and was immediately attacked by remaining two. After several minutes manoeuvring I succeeded in putting burst of thirty or forty into leader at about 50 or 75 yards. He fell in steep spiral nose dive but was not seen to crash. Continued fight with remaining two, one of which fired burst of 100 rounds or more piercing my pressure tank. I switched on to gravity and dived zigzag for clouds which were at 3500 to 3000 feet. Crossed lines near Bailleul at 8:45.

Claimed as "out of control" I have nothing that suggests that this was allowed.

21 August 1918 - a Fokker DVII out of control at 57C F22; While on O.P. and co-operating with R.E.S's we met 8 Fokker biplanes at one p. m., 57C.F.22; we attacked, our leader diving on first Fokker; two Fokkers got on leader's tail and I attacked the rear E.A. of the two. Put a burst of 30 or 40 rounds into him at a range of 75 yards. Fokker seemed to hesitate, stall, turn to the left, and go down very steeply. Dove on the tail of foremost Fokker who half rolled to the right and went down in steep dive with another Camel on his tail which followed him several
thousand feet.

Claimed as 1 Fokker biplane driven down out of control and 1 Fokker biplane driven down, Williams was credited with one out of control.

22 August 1918 - a balloon in flames at 57C H22; While on cooperative patrol with R.E.S's at 9:50, dove with Lieut. Williams on E.K.B. at 57c. H. 22, at 1000 feet. Fired long burst up to within 25 yards of K.B. which ignited and went down in flames. 400 rounds fired.

(Sgd.) W. D. Tipton.
(Sgd.) R. D. Williams.

Only the balloon appears in the RAF Communiques (out of control claims having ceased being listed with effect from late May 1918).

Graeme

[regular122]

Thank you Graeme for the kind reply. In working through the various reports, there must be some way to determine what constituted the 5 claims. Here is what I have learned thus far:

20 July 1918 Claim = 1 Fokker Destroyed and confirmed, Tipton claimed Williams destroyed a second not immediately claimed and status of confirmation unknown.

Combat Report No. 1, 17th Aero Squadron, dated 20 July 1918 shows one Fokker Biplane destroyed by Williams and one Fokker Biplane driven down under control. The destroyed Fokker was cited as confirmed in the report by 2 Section, 6D.A., Belgian Army, through the American Mission. That report read as follows:

"SIGNAL MESSAGE
From: American Mission with Belgian Army. To: CO. 17th Aero Squadron.
Re: confirmation E.A. sent down by Lieutenant Williams. 2nd Sec- tion, 6 D. A., Belgian Army, reports one E.A. seen to go down in flames S.W. of Ostend, between 9:30 and 10:00 this morning."

9 August 1918 Claim = 1 Siemens Biplane Destroyed, Indecisive in Combat report No. 12

Combat report No. 12, 17th Aero Squadron, dated 9 August 1918 shows one new type Enemy Aircraft in a flight of three new types being driven down out of control and witnessed by Lt. Theose Tillinghast. The confirmation was listed as 'Indecisive.' Reed and Roland in 'Camel Drivers' state on page 50 that this was later confirmed as a flaming crash below and that the craft were thought to be Siemens. I cannot find the source for this or that the new type was a Siemens Biplane.

12 August 1918 Claim = 1 x Fokker destroyed, status of claim not known

Reed and Roland in 'Camel Drivers' page 52 cite that after Shearman and Williams attacked a Fokker which Shearman brought down (Combat Report No. 13), that Williams engaged a Fokker and downed him after Lt. Ralph Gracie was shot down and killed. The specific Combat Report for this I have been unable to find.

21 August 1918 Claim = 1 x Fokker OOC, 1 x Driven Down

22 August 1918 Claim = 1 x Kite Balloon Destroyed and confirmed

Combat Report No. 24, dated 22 August 1918 shows one kite balloon destroyed by both Williams and Tipton. This was confirmed by RAF Communique No. 21, dated 22 August 1918.

Confirmation for Rodney Williams dated 22 September 1918. Was this related to an indecisive claim, the 20 July second aircraft or something different entirely? Williams would have been in hospital on this date. Reed and Roland suggest it was for the 20 July second Fokker. I cannot find the confirmation for this or the communique from that date.


The question that I am trying to resolve is what constituted Williams five confirmed victories? He is listed as an ace in so many period documents and has official credits as a confirmed US Air Service Ace.

The Balloon is certain (shared with Todd). So is one 20 July machine. What constituted the other three? Any help is appreciated and if anyone lives in Wisconsin, Williams personal manuscript and papers I believe reside in the Wisconsin Veterans Museum and may shed additional light.

[regular122]

Graeme, while searching at the US National Archives this weekend I found a copy of the combat report of 20 July 1918 in Gorrell's histories. It shows one Fokker biplane destroyed and one driven down under control. It also confirms he was piloting Sopwith Camel D6595, something the 17th's unit history does not show in its summation of Combat Report #1.

I am still trying to find what constituted his five claims--acknowledged by nearly everyone from 1918 onward in Ace Lists by the USAS and USAF. I have copies of some of the other reports but must sort through them.

What may I ask is Study 133? Thanks, Steve

[Graeme]

Hi Steve

Study 133 is shorthand for "USAF Historical Study No 133 - US Air Service Victory Credits World War I" compiled by the Historical Research Division, Aerospace Studies Institute, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama in June 1969.

Graeme

[Graeme]

Steve

The four combat reports list six "claims" - a Fokker DVII out of control and another under control of 20 July, the unidentified scout out of control on 9 August, a Fokker DVII out of control and another driven down on 21 August and the balloon shared with Tipton on 22 August. It must be remembered that not all claims were victories and of the six claims it appears that three were "allowed" by the RAF.

I have tried an alternate tack and reviewed the notes I made from the Summary of Work, 3rd Brigade - the two USAS squadrons having come under command of this Brigade by late July 1918.

The file does not provide a great deal of detail but covers the work of the 17th and 148th from 21 August to 29 September 1918. The only mention for Williams is the balloon victory shared with Tipton on 22 August.

Prior to this, the 17th had been part of 5th Brigade and although I am certain I had made notes on this Brigade's work, I presently cannot find them. I'll keep looking and post anything I come up with.

As far as I can tell, Williams was flying D6595 for the three victories on 20 July and 21 and 22 August and when he was wounded on 23 August. The Camel was lost on 26 August when Todd was shot down and taken prisoner.

Graeme

[regular122]

Thanks Graeme.

If Study 133 states that the July 20, 1918 claims were a single out of control only, this would be incorrect on both counts in the records of the day. Am I correct to say that the studies were conducted in 1969?

Attached you can see the report of 20 July I found in Gorrells at the National Archives. This correlates with Clapp's history of the 17th Aero and those reports.

I am finding some source material from Williams with the assistance of the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame staff and hope I can find the missing reports somewhere on what Lt. Williams and the US Air Service believed he was credited for. My studies thus far seem to indicate the missing data is between 9 and 12 August. Steve

[Graeme]

Steve

Study 133 drew on the works "Thirtieth Report of Air Service Activities, A.E.F., for Week Ending May 26, 1919" which was the first official compilation of victory credits for USAF aircrew and "Air Service Information Circular (Heavier-than-Air), Volume I, Number 7 (February 9, 1920)".

Work on Study 133 commenced June 1965 and took four years to complete.

The combat report for 20 July shows one destroyed, but the narrative clearly indicates one out of control and one driven down under control. Results considered decisive in terms of crashing, going down in flames etc usually appeared in the corresponding RAF Communique and the fact that this does not appear in the Communique tends to indicate that "higher command" went with the "out of control" description. This was still regarded as "decisive" so was allowed as part of a pilot's victory tally but details of these "victories" stopped being recorded in the Communiques in May 1918.

Study 133, which allocated victory credits rather than listing claims, shows Williams with a single victory on 20 July, the entry reading "1.00 A WILLIAMS RODNEY D 1LT US 17 PUR P.

The study does not differentiate between destroyed, out of control etc so this merely indicates a victory over an aeroplane (as opposed to a balloon) with the "1.00" indicating that it was not a shared victory and the "P" indicating that Williams was a pilot.

I think we have found all of the claims submitted by Williams so it is simply a matter of deciding the outcome of each combat. It would seem that the RAF, at the time, allowed three claims and the USAF four.

All that's left is to debate the merits of each claim and determine whether he should have a fifth victory credited to him.

Cheers

Graeme

[Frederic Mason]

The only way these victory-loss controversies will be resolved completely is if there is a time machine available after the crossover to eternity, at which time this sort of magilla will be the least of worries. My concerns about these veracities begins and ends with Study 133. Anyone who thinks they can do a better job than the USAF is in the wrong pew? End of story??

[regular122]

Frederic,

While I appreciate the spirit of the comment, I am also mindful that these studies were done by humans just like today. The simple fact remains that for more than 50 years, Mr. Williams was credited with 5 victories, decorated for valor (Silver Star retroactive to his MID), awarded a Purple Heart (retroactive to his wound stripe), accorded honors by his country and state and then someone determines with the aid of staff college students at Maxwell that he somehow only had four vice five victories. Further, was Mr. Williams, who was still living at the time, officially notified that one of his victories was no longer valid? If so, which one?

I also have been struck by the inconsistencies of the base RAF reports with regard to the 17th, and also Captain Warren Munsell's studies who used them to make his compilations in 1919. There can be little doubt in my mind that these likely would form the basis of Study 133.

In those reports for example, Munsell also lists other 17th Aces such as Vaughn with 12 (he had 13 using the American system), Hamilton with 9 victories (he had 10), Burdick with 7 (he had 8) and Tipton with 4 (he had 5). Only Knotts had a consistent record matching what are acknowledged as his combat record (6). Are we to assume that no error was made on Williams given that errors were made on every other 17th Ace except Knotts? How is it that for 50 years the USAS, USAAC and the USAF said he had 5 and then suddenly he has 4? Even Munsell himself stated in his initial report of 1919 about "1st Lieut. R. D. Williams destroying the first enemy aeroplanes for the squadron on the 20th of July, 1918." What strikes me here is the use of the word "aeroplanes" vice aeroplane.

This is what I am trying to determine. Beyond the niceties of study and accuracy, it is even more important to preserve a brave combat pilot's record. Nothing is more hurtful to the warrior class than to have one's honor diminished after one's death when one is not available to defend it. If deserved, fine. If not, and Williams was a humble man, then perhaps these controversies are worth bearing out.

As to doing 'a better job' YES it IS possible. The archival material available to researchers today is far superior to anything before. Even such venerable and respected historians as Norman Franks makes an error on Williams in stating that he was downed on 26 August 1918. It is an honest error. His Camel, D6595, was indeed downed on 26 August but with Robert Todd at the controls.

I appreciate the patience and accommodation of all to a newbie and I certainly respect the studied and collected knowledge of this group or I would not have queried here. I do believe Mr. Williams' record is out there. Such knowledgeable folks as are here can likely help decipher it. If his reduction to 4 victories is solely based on Study 133, then I can see how that conclusion would occur. I just think the other evidence might bear out his record more accurately and consistent with the previous 5 decades of accepted valor. Thanks, Steve