An Oversight?

I was reading,again, (a dangerous pastime), this time about my favorite Jasta-the 'green tails' of Jasta 5. and realized this: Josef Mai, 30 victories,no Pour le Merite! Now, Mai was only an N.C.O.-not uppercrust uhlan, I guess (one of the reasons I like this Jasta...regular homegrown pilots with success;many N.C.O.'s). He was robbed!!!! It also sounds suspiciously like a real-life (ahem)"The Blue Max". It pains me to say that, for I fear someone will throw in 'the towel',alas. Anyway, any comment? any simliarly-robbed pilots in the war?

[Barrett]

Some other high-scoring German aces "wuz robbed" but mainly by the sudden end of the war. Gustav Dorr received the Golden Military Merit Cross for 23 victories, the highest Prussian award for an NCO. He was commissioned in September '18 and ran his string to 35 but no PlM.
Ltn Hermann Frommherz finished with 32 victories, was nominated but for the Max but didn't get it. Same with Harald Auffarth (29). Paul Billik (31) was captured and did not receive it.
Carl Degelow (30) only squeaked in, getting his PlM on 9 November. Similarly, Franz Buchner's was only awarded in late Oct. after 40 victories!
So whom did Göring know in order to receive the gong after 18 kills?

[Billy_Bishop]

I guess the question on Goering would be when did he score his 16th victory, as that was the standard for a time. Just as it started out at 8 victories, then shortly before MvR got his 8th, the standard was raised to 16. But MvR got his 16th before the standard was again raised to 20.

So I guess it's a question of when did Goering get his 16th, versus when did the standard get raised to 20.

With regards to the NCO, the reason he didn't get the Blue Max is easy. It's for officers only.

VBR,

Al Lowe
2-bit amateur aviation Historian and/or enthusiast

[Darryl]

Hi Al
In regard to Goering, his 16th *credited* was on the 7th of November (just to prevent any confusion Mike*G*) 1917 at 09.15 a DH5. However the "Abschusslist" records it as 21.15!!!! To add to the problem Under the Guns of the German Aces lists the only British loss that day was an AWFK8 (10 sqd)This is incorrect (they have looked at 7th November 1918 in error!!!).
Notwithstanding this there were no DH5 casualties on 7/11/1917. It is hardly an aircraft one could mistake for another!!
Now I'm not suggesting old Hermann may have been a bit keen because of the PLM, but...........

In regard to the award, it came through on 2/6/1918 when his score stood at 18.
(Sources: UTGGA, TSTB, ATL)

I suspect our Hermann was always a better politician than pilot.

VBR

Darryl

Jim R.,
It has also been stated that the Imperial German High Command did not issue the award posthumously.
There was a case of a pilot who qualified for it and between the time of submission for it by his command, and the date he would've actually received it, he was shot down and killed. The policy was such that his family members never received it. I believed this was stated in the book 'Germany's Knights of the Air' which is a record of all pilots who won the PLM in WW1.
VBR,
Jim

That seems to be in contrast to the British, who seemed to have a "must be dead" rule re. the Victoria Cross. Maybe thats not as facetious as I had thought,however....is it? I dont know the rules to the VC.

Oh, and I forgot...only officers got the PLM? Checked under Mai in this very site. States "was under consideration for"...so maybe he stood a chance,nevertheless.

[PeterL]

The VC is the only British decoration that can be awarded posthumusly. There is however no restiction regarding the rank of the recipiant, as there is with other awards such as DFC or MC. "Crosses for the Officers, medals for the troops." is still the rule in this country.

Come the revolution!

Peter L

[Rittm]

Speaking of missing. Not very many people remember to list Ltn. Wolfgang Pluschow. As a matter of fact I don't think he is listed on the forum. He was part of Jasta 11, I think.
Rittm

I'm gonna go look for his name.

[Rittm]

He is missing from the list. Does anyone know his number of kills? I have a picture I can scan. Maybe we can get Scott to add his name if we find out the number of kills. Anyone up for the hunt?

Rittm