Albatros of Farman?

[Roser]

Can someone help mue to identify this plane?

http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/32095814...84.m1497.l2649


Thanks

Roser

[Aquilius]

Albatros MZ.1

The "Militär-Zweidecker 1" was a developement of the Farman biplane by Albatros. At least 11 machines of this type were sold to the army in late 1911.

The shape of the gondola is the main hint to Albatros. And the triple side rudders identify this machine as MZ.1. In 1912 followed a slightly smaller type of the same layout "MZ.2", that now had two side rudders only.

By the way, the neighbour company LVG built almost identic machines in 1911/1912. They differed in details only, i.e. the form of the gondola.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Roser]

Thanks for the quick reply.

[Oldman]

Dear colleague,
In book G. Kroschel, H. Stutzer. Die Deutschen Militarflugzeugen. 1910-1918. designation MZ.1 belongs to this plane QIP Shot -

In the same book plane Leutnant von Buttlar has designation F.1 (or F.2?).

How it is correct?

[musec]

Hello Oldtimer,

Your image actually appears to be a 1912 Doppeltaube. Although I agree it is described as MZ.1 in Kroschel/Stutzer.

Anyone know if the Doppeltaube had a designation other than Doppeltaube?

Also anyone know if any Doppeltaube or MZ.1 in use in August 1914 with the airforce?

[Aquilius]

It is always difficult to tell what is truth when original documents are missing and without knowing on what material others have based their writing.
As well Bruno Lange listed the "Doppeltaube" as "MZ.1".

Actually there have been two versions of each, the gondola-pusher and the Doppeltaube, that were given with the MZ-designation. Maybe one day, I can print something more extensive than what is to find until now.

The story in short:

• In January 1910 Albatros (Dr. Huth) bought a Farman biplane in France, that he lend and finaly sold to the Army in January 1911. This Albatros F.1 became the first German Army biplane - serial "B 1".

• In June/July 1911 Benno König won the "Deutsche Rundflug" in an improved version Albatros F.2, that was taken over afterwards, including an additional order of 6 machines - serials "B 2-B 8".

• Already at the "Herbstflugwoche 1911" in September/October Albatros entered a new machine with star-pilot Alfred Pietschker. Pietschker won the competition and set up new world records in altitude and duration with two passengers. His pusher biplane later became known as Albatros Militär-Zweidecker (before the term "Doppeldecker" became popular in Germany). This type again was orderd by the army in 11 copies. I have no verification, but I assume it was the winning machine and 10 additional copies.

• Early in 1912 Albatros brought out a new version of their pusher biplane with covered gondola, slightly smaller with revised tank installment, mainly two rudders only and other details. This would be the Albatros MZ.2, of wich very little is to find unfortunately. You have to remind that there was a constant developement and several modifications, not a series production by any standards. Often there is written: "The Albatros MZ was built in several variants".


• A little later in 1911, Albatros developed the Doppeltaube, one of the first real fuselage biplanes in Germany. The first time this type was presented to public was the Olympia Aero Show in London, December 1911. In April 1912 it was shown at the ALA in Berlin. It had a greater weight than the pushers, but showed more stable flight characteristics with the Taube-wings and offered a higher payload than other mono- and biplanes of the time.

• In mid 1912 a second version of the Doppeltaube followed. It got a more modern tailplane and three-bay wings (or three sets of V-struts sideways) and again had an increased weight and payload. This type sometimes is given as "Albatros MZ.2" as well, while I would prefer Albatros Doppeltaube 2. In all 46 copies of both Albatros Doppeltauben were taken over by the army in 1912.

Well the Albatros Doppeltaube was a "Militär-Zweidecker" in the sence that it was a biplane that served with the army, and probably was advertised as this. Numerical differention was done some times later, I believe.
But in my eyes, to give the Doppeltaube as "Albatros MZ.1" is an unfortunate designation. First beacuse of the conflicting/douplicated designation, and second because the gondola-pusher definitely predated the Doppeltaube.

Edit: It is unlikely that both types were flown after 1913.

Cheers

Aquilius

[musec]

Hello Aquilius

Thanks for the cpmprehensive answer. I see that Kroschel and Stutzer give a figure of 46 examples of the MZ.1 built.Is this your source for the two variants of Doppeltaube totalling 46 machines?

Regards,

Clint

[Aquilius]

Originally Posted by musec

Hello Aquilius

Thanks for the cpmprehensive answer. I see that Kroschel and Stutzer give a figure of 46 examples of the MZ.1 built.Is this your source for the two variants of Doppeltaube totalling 46 machines?

Regards,

Clint

Hey Clint,

I see, now that you point on the number "46", that seems very much, considering the limited availability of photographs.
At the moment I can't track back where I have the note from.

So better withdraw that.
I am not safe from making mistakes.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Oldman]

Dear Acuilius,
thanks for very interesting and informative answer.
I have once again looked book Kroschel/Stutzer. In table (1911) planes F.1 and MZ.2/1911 are located on the next columns and have a common position of quantity of the made planes - 11. This fact allows to draw a conclusion, that authors consider MZ.2 as plane F.1 updating.
Plane MZ.1 is located in a column of 1912 (the manufacture beginning).
It can say that planes MZ.1 and MZ.2 structurally among themselves are not connected, and figures 1 and 2 specify in sequence of acceptance of planes on arms.
Excuse for bad English language.