Possible RFC Sgt Pilot's 1912 Model 1st Version Tunic

RAF_Louvert · 6 August 2012, 08:53 AM

Greetings All,

It has been quite some time since I've stopped by the Aerodrome and it's good to see the place is still as popular as ever. I have something that requires the knowledge of some of you learned folks here. This weekend I purchased what might be a 1912 Model RFC Other Ranks maternity tunic with pilot wings, RFC tags, and sergeant chevrons. By pure chance I came upon it on eBay just a few minutes before it was due to close so I had no time to ask the seller any questions about it. However, the seller had posted some nice photos, and has a perfect rating in terms of customer satisfaction, so I took a leap of faith and bid on the item, and ended up winning it. Here are the photos of the tunic and badges, (with the backgrounds on the first two images neutralized to better show the item itself):

It looks to me like the bottom of the tunic has been shortened 3" to 4" or so as the single short vent is missing at the back and the ends of sleeves appear to land just below the bottom hem . Also, the bottom hem looks different from the vertical seam. But the rest of the tunic has the right 'feel' to it. If you compare it to the following photo of the 1912 Model, first version, as seen in the Osprey publication "British Air Forces 1914-18" by Andrew Cormack, it looks like it could be a match:

It has the stand and fall collar with only a top hook to close it, and because no pocket flaps are visible it likely has the vertical slit pockets: both features would be correct for this version. Also, because this is an OR maternity tunic, (and seems to be the very earliest version at that), it would be odd if it were a replica, simply because most would want the 1914 or later officer's versions with the epaulettes and full lapels. The item should arrive in a week or so and I can examine it in person and post additional photos, but until then I would appreciate any information and opinions on this old tunic. Many thanks.

Cheers!

Lou

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Jim · 6 August 2012, 01:26 PM

How much did you pay for it?

It is always hard to tell just from some internet photos but I am seeing some things that make me think it may not be what it is purported to be. These are: the wings do not look like any of the period with which I am most familiar. Also their condition seems unnaturally fresh and without the usual wear and fading. The RFC shoulder tabs are also unusually fresh and without the typical wear and fading. The sergeants stripes seem to be more of the age of the tunic and could be original but it is hard to tell for sure from just the photos. And the short waist length of the tunic seems to be the way it was made which is not right.

There is quite the cottage industry of unscrupulous people taking old tunics and adding patches to greatly increase their desireability and selling price. I am open to hearing others opinions, but my first thought is you seem to have one of these.

Also, a word on feedback ratings. I see perfect feedback ratings on many sellers who are auctioning obvious fakes so you need to be careful in assuming very much from a perfect or near perfect feedback rating. I would guess this seller could very well be unaware that this may be a fake but there is no way to tell.

RAF_Louvert · 6 August 2012, 02:24 PM

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Jim, thank you for your input. I am quite prepared to discover that this tunic is in fact just as you say, and I took that into account when I bid on it. That being said, even if it turns out to be a replica or other such non-original item it will still display well in my little flying room. The wings are hand-stitched and very high quality even if they are not WWI originals, and the shoulder tabs appear to be hand-stitched as well. I agree that they look almost too fresh to be for real, (with the exception of a bit of white thread missing on the inboard wingtip), but I will have to wait to examine it in person before I can go further with that assessment. I don't agree about that bottom hem though as it looks like an alteration to the garment after-the-fact. We shall see, and I am looking forward to discovering just what this old jacket really is. And to answer your question Jim, I paid $294 for the tunic which was one dollar less than the max bid I had placed. I decided I could live with paying that for it even if it turned out to be nothing more than a clever knock-off.

Oh, I should add it was my thinking that this may be a 1st version 1912 Model maternity tunic. All the seller had stated was that it was an old original RFC jacket.

Thanks again.

Lou

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ONEALM · 7 August 2012, 06:21 AM

Lou -

You cannot have them made new for $294 so even if it turns out to be a fake in every respect, it'll make a good display piece for a reasonable price.

Typically even OR Maternity Tunics go for $1000 or more and if all the patches were/are legit, it would probably go higher than that.

That on the table, I'm in agreement with Jim on every point. The patches are much too clean and it is a little short. Check this link and the attached photo. Both are known originals for comparison.
Model 1914 Other Ranks Issued Maternity tunic

Lastly, I've made enough collecting mistakes to know that the best defense against them is patience and research. If a piece is worth obtaining, know exactly what you are after and what it might cost to get a good example. You can then buy with a little confidence.

You'll avoid a lot of forehead slapping that way....

-Mike

RAF_Louvert · 7 August 2012, 09:18 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEALM

You cannot have them made new for $294 so even if it turns out to be a fake in every respect, it'll make a good display piece for a reasonable price.

That was my thinking precisely Mike when I set my high bid on this item. Also, quite right about the jacket being too short and I noted that in my original post. What I am waiting to discover now is if it was made that short or if it started out the proper length and was altered later in its life. The link you posted goes to a page I've been to many times over at the Kaiser's Bunker, and was in fact there again earlier this AM.

Many thanks for your comments and input, they are much appreciated. Also, let me say, I am a fan of your aviation art and find your style quite reminiscent of George Horace Davis. The Albatri in your "Sharks" on the title page of your site evokes the DH.9a flight in his "Closing Up" , IMHO.

Lou

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ONEALM · 7 August 2012, 11:28 AM

Lou -

Thanks for the kind comments. I like to think my style matches the era I paint (and the fact that I can't keep a paint brush from looking like Broccolli for more than 5 minutes.....)

The attached photo of the OR maternity tunic is one I own so if you need detail shots of anything not in visible in that small photo, don't hesitate to ask.

Keep at it,
Mike

RAF_Louvert · 7 August 2012, 07:28 PM

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Mike,

You mean the brushes aren't supposed to look like broccolli in short order when you're painting? So THAT'S what I'm doing wrong.

That is a beautiful officer's maternity tunic you have there, and I'm betting it is the pride of your collection. And I would most certainly like additional photos of it when you have a chance to send them along. I will add them to my electronic library.

Since we are sharing photos of our acquisitions, here is the centerpiece of my meagar WWI aviation collection:

I actually created this French Sous-lieutenant aviateur's uniform as a canvas on which to display a small collection of original WWI French and Belgian medals and badges I have. The project started out innocently enough but ended up taking on a life of it's own. An old USMC jacket served as the starting point, and I re-tailored it to match an original WWI French FL tunic. I then found a vintage pair of red wool trousers which I again altered to fit the look. The kepi is a nice old example, (with the proper FL knot and red lid), which I bought online from a fellow in Bourbourg. The correct period boots and Sam Browne were also purchased online from a very nice gent near Sussex. While working on this over the course of about a year-and-a-half I wound up creating a "provenance" to surround the whole affair that goes something like this:

A 20-year-old American lad, (whose mother was French), is living in Paris at the outbreak of hostilities and joins up immediately with the French Foreign Legion, (a not unusual situation for Americans who were in France at that moment in history). He takes part in the first major blood-lettings of the War and it is his actions during these initial months that earns him the Medaille Militaire, (a French honour reserved for enlisted men), as well as the Belgian Croix de Guerre with palm. By the early summer of 1915 he decides he's seen enough of life in the trenches and applies for a transfer to the French Air Service, which is granted due to his record and his willingness to learn to fly. After several months of training at Avord he is passed and breveted on October 1, 1915. He is assigned immediately to Escadrille 67, (eventually serving with the French ace Jean Navarre). The Champagne Offensive proves to be the young American's aerial baptism by fire, followed by Verdun, and he emerges from both alive and with the French Croix de Guerre and two palms now among his awards. He manages to survive the war and his exploits along the way earn him a promotion to the officer's ranks and a brace of France's and Belgium's highest honours, (the Légion d'honneur, Chevalier's class, and the Order of Leopold, Chevalier's class), as well as a wound star and eight additional palms to the French CdG.

Apart from the medals themselves the outfit sports the buttons of the Foreign Legion and a pilot's brevet, (reproduction items); an original silver WWI "Cigogne" pin; vintage bullion collar flashes and tour chevrons; correct rank soutache above the cuffs; and correct original kepi numbers. Also note the genuine WWI "Fourragère aux couleurs du ruban de la Croix de Guerre", (the draped cord going under the medals), which was an honor worn by all the pilots of Escadrille 67.

Kind'a crazy ... isn't it? But it's my crazy.

Lou

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ONEALM · 8 August 2012, 08:26 AM

Lou -

I followed the build of your French uniform closely. Our little band of aviation hooligans at the Golden Age Air Museum have got a couple of uniforms together for our WW I events. We had a German (Paul Dougherty and his tremendous Fokker Triplane) and a Brit (Mike Damiani and the just-completed Sopwith Pup). We'vce got a guy working on a US uniform (and if we all live long enough, an American built airplane) and we needed a French representative.

I put together a uniform that is just a shadow of what you've done, but very much on the same lines. Pre-war, dark blue top, jazzy red pants, pilot brevet, croix de guerre barette (sp ?), etc. A little less refined that what you've done, but great for the purpose for running around in 90+ heat at the airfield and during our events. Needs a few tweaks (wrong hat for example), but we're working on that....

Now all I have to do is build a Nieuport 17 or 24bis to go with it.....

Thanks for the inspiration -

-Mike

RAF_Louvert · 8 August 2012, 07:08 PM

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Mike,

You've made my day! I had no idea anyone was taking notice of my little project outside of the OFF forums. I'm chuffed about that, really, and that my efforts served as inspiration for your own aviateur's uniform. Looking mighty sharp there too, I must say. If ever I find myself out your way I will most certainly be stopping by the Golden Age Air Museum. I'd love to see the collection you folks have put together over the years. And an N24bis you say? It ties as my second favorite WWI Allied scout with the SE5a. The BR.1 powered Camel is still hands down my all time favorite. Oh if only I had a much larger checkbook ... I'd have had a replica built, flown it, and killed myself by now.

Lou

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ONEALM · 9 August 2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

I'd have had a replica built, flown it, and killed myself by now.

There's apparently some benefit in being broke .....

As far as inspiration, I suspect we often don't realize how far our little projects project and who might be taking some encouragement from them. I can tell you, there are plenty of threads here that have helped move me along.

If you do get out the museum, be sure to let me know you are coming. My work schedule is whacky at times, but typically I'm there for all events and every Sunday. It would be great to meet another forumite.

I'll see if I can get you some detail shots of the Brit tunic this weekend.

Keep at it,
Mike