Early RAF uniform

mikehowat · 4 December 2011, 02:10 PM

I have been trying to trace an uncle for many years, who went missing in 1924, age 25 in Canada. I have come across a photo of him in an early RAF uniform, which has been uploaded to Aerodrome Forum as Thomas Howat, RAF.jpg as an attachment.
The uniform is; an Officers Hat with a Kings Crown badge, A No1 SD jacket in Air Force blue ( identical to the one I wore in the 60's and 70's)with no brevet or medal ribbons or rings on the sleeve denoting rank but there is a small crown above eagle badge worn on the left forearm. He is carrying a cane and gloves and wearing khaki jodhpurs.
The uniform style is dated after July 1918, but there are a few things I dont understand; No war ribbons when he could be an SNCO or an officer. Promotion to which ranks would require service during hostilities. No sleeve rings indicate an NCO to me. Did they carry canes and wear officer style hats?
Do we have any experts in this area in the forum groups or anyone who can steer me in the right direction? help pse if you can.
Mike Howat

wingandprop · 24 December 2011, 02:33 PM

First of all, you have to realize that the RAF was a brand new organization in 1918 and everything from uniforms to command structure was in a fair bit of flux. The RAF's uniform regulations seemed at times to change on an almost day to day basis and few of those changes were regarded as "requirements" pending the end of the war: the supply chain simply didn't have enough of the new uniform items to provide them to everyone authorized to receive them. That level of uncertainty is hardly surprising for a new organization having to create itself almost from scratch even as it was in the midst of fighting a war. Nor were aviators the most regulation oriented crowd to start with. That is why a 1918 photo of an RAF squadron's pilots in service dress looks less like men assigned to a single military formation than it does some sort of interservice, or even international, military conference. Almost nothing matches with the men sitting either side of them!

The result of all of this is that figuring out early RAF uniforms is half art, half science, and half individual psychology. (That math is no mistake!) Some on this site actually have the full order lists and can walk you through each order and each effective date...and will then tell you that the supply chain didn't actually have half of those items to supply, the order was superceded twice in the next two months, and it was all optional until the end of the war anyway. I am not among those with the full order lists, but I can at least give you some information.

To start with, senior NCO's were authorized to carry swagger sticks. Like everything in the military of the time, the sticks varied with rank. Lighter sticks, such as the bamboo sticks we often see, were most often for NCO's or sometimes junior officers, whereas most officers would typically have a heavier stick, like that seen in your picture. The most senior NCO's (say a Regimental Sergeant Major) would also have a heavier stick.

The picture you have supplied, however, is that of a 2nd Lieutenant in the RAF. That is established by his rank of a crown above an eagle found on his sleeve. His cap would have had a single metal bar on either side of the badge, but that was deleted by AMWO 1318 in Oct. 1918, so this picture was taken after that date. You are correct that there is no lace around the cuff, but that did not become part of the 2Lt. RAF uniform until Dec. 1918 (Order AMWO 1597–just after the end of the war) at which time a half width row of lace was added and the crown removed. The eagle was retained. He wears no wings or ribbons. Perhaps the uniform was new enough that he had not had any ribbons mounted (they would have had to have been sewn to the uniform), or, more likely, he was a brand new officer in 1918 and simply had not received any ribbons at that time.

mustang · 24 December 2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehowat

I have been trying to trace an uncle for many years, who went missing in 1924, age 25 in Canada. I have come across a photo of him in an early RAF uniform, which has been uploaded to Aerodrome Forum as Thomas Howat, RAF.jpg as an attachment.
The uniform is; an Officers Hat with a Kings Crown badge, A No1 SD jacket in Air Force blue ( identical to the one I wore in the 60's and 70's)with no brevet or medal ribbons or rings on the sleeve denoting rank but there is a small crown above eagle badge worn on the left forearm. He is carrying a cane and gloves and wearing khaki jodhpurs.
The uniform style is dated after July 1918, but there are a few things I dont understand; No war ribbons when he could be an SNCO or an officer. Promotion to which ranks would require service during hostilities. No sleeve rings indicate an NCO to me. Did they carry canes and wear officer style hats?
Do we have any experts in this area in the forum groups or anyone who can steer me in the right direction? help pse if you can.
Mike Howat

May I add some further info on the uniform shown in the photo. If you look closely at the left sleeve in the photo shown it is possible to discern a single wide broad band just below the eagle. This would indicate a junior officer of the newly created rank of Flying Officer in the RAF and subsequently in the Commonwealth Air Forces; Canada, Australia and New Zealand etc. When I joined the RAAF in WW2 officer rank, on the winter uniform, was shown by a single narrow band for a Pilot Officer and then a series of broad bands for increasing rank from Flying Officer up to Group Captain. The one exception was Squadron Leader with a broad band either side of the narrow band. The right sleeve would have caried the same insignia but this is not visible in the photo.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mustang

wingandprop · 24 December 2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang

If you look closely at the left sleeve in the photo shown it is possible to discern a single wide broad band just below the eagle. This would indicate a junior officer of the newly created rank of Flying Officer in the RAF

I am afraid I have to disagree. I have looked at the picture with a magnifying glass and I see no lace on either sleeve, just a crease in the closer sleeve. More importantly, the crown was eliminated at the same time the half width lace was added, in Dec. 1918. You should never see the crown and the half lace together in the same picture as the lace replaced the crown. Nor would you see a "broad band" of lace in any event as the 2nd Lieutenant was only given a half width band of lace. The presence of the crown above the eagle leaves no question but that this is a 2nd Lieutenant, not a Flying officer. (Actually, as a 2nd Lieutenant, the equivalent rank would be a Pilot Officer). The Lieutenant/Flying Officer rank designation never included the crown. That was unique to the RAF 2Lt rank. By the time the Pilot Officer rank was created in August 1919 the crown would have been gone, replaced by the lace, for eight months. This picture predates the new rank system created by the RAF in August 1919 and shows a 2nd Lieutenant of late 1918 or early 1919.

Getting back to Mike's original query, you seem to think you had to go through the ranks and have some experience before you could become an officer. That was not the case. The vast majority of 2nd Lieutenants did not have any experience in the ranks before receiving their commissions. The fact that he has no ribbons would not preclude his being an officer. In fact, a heavily decorated 2nd Lieutenant would definitely not be the norm. Most infantry 2Lts. didn't live long enough to be heavily decorated and the ones that did were promoted. A ground officer in the RAF, on the other hand, had the likelihood of a full life, albeit with much less opportunity for promotion as a result.

mustang · 27 December 2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingandprop

I am afraid I have to disagree. I have looked at the picture with a magnifying glass and I see no lace on either sleeve, just a crease in the closer sleeve. More importantly, the crown was eliminated at the same time the half width lace was added, in Dec. 1918. You should never see the crown and the half lace together in the same picture as the lace replaced the crown. Nor would you see a "broad band" of lace in any event as the 2nd Lieutenant was only given a half width band of lace. The presence of the crown above the eagle leaves no question but that this is a 2nd Lieutenant, not a Flying officer. (Actually, as a 2nd Lieutenant, the equivalent rank would be a Pilot Officer). The Lieutenant/Flying Officer rank designation never included the crown. That was unique to the RAF 2Lt rank. By the time the Pilot Officer rank was created in August 1919 the crown would have been gone, replaced by the lace, for eight months. This picture predates the new rank system created by the RAF in August 1919 and shows a 2nd Lieutenant of late 1918 or early 1919.

Getting back to Mike's original query, you seem to think you had to go through the ranks and have some experience before you could become an officer. That was not the case. The vast majority of 2nd Lieutenants did not have any experience in the ranks before receiving their commissions. The fact that he has no ribbons would not preclude his being an officer. In fact, a heavily decorated 2nd Lieutenant would definitely not be the norm. Most infantry 2Lts. didn't live long enough to be heavily decorated and the ones that did were promoted. A ground officer in the RAF, on the other hand, had the likelihood of a full life, albeit with much less opportunity for promotion as a result.

Wingandprop

I disagree with your disagreement. I have followed your example and carefully scrutinised the lower left sleeve through a high quality magnifying device used in engine repair shops for identifying very fine cracks in components. It clearly shows a distinct band of a different colour and and texture from the uniform material. If it was a fold or crease in the sleeve why is a similar result not apparent in the more numerous folds and creases further up the sleeve? Moreover, the fact that army rank insignia is not shown in the photo would indicate that this officer was commisioned into the newly formed rank structure of the RAF. Pilot Officer, Flying Officer, etc

Your second paragraph seems to have been dragged out of the thin air. In no way did I suggest that previous experience was necessary before becoming an officer. In 30 years experience in a Commonwealth Air Force I have sat on a number of selection boards which interviewed candidates "off the street" for commissioned rank. Some were successful, others not.

May I suggest that you read any post that you reply to more carefully before coming to an erroneous conclusion about its contents.

Finally, I did not intend to become involved in a controversy over this matter. My only intentiion was to provide some, albeit minimal, information to the original question. Accordingly, I will respond to no further posts.

However, As a suggestion to the original member seeking information, Graeme who posts here regularly, and has access to the London Gazette of the relevant period, may be able to dig up some information on dates of commisioning, rank on appointment, period of service etc.

I will leave this issue at this point.

Mustang

wingandprop · 28 December 2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang

Your second paragraph seems to have been dragged out of the thin air. In no way did I suggest that previous experience was necessary before becoming an officer. In 30 years experience in a Commonwealth Air Force I have sat on a number of selection boards which interviewed candidates "off the street" for commissioned rank. Some were successful, others not.

May I suggest that you read any post that you reply to more carefully before coming to an erroneous conclusion about its contents.

Actually, my reference to the lack of a previous experience requirement in order to become an officer had nothing to do with your post. It was a direct reference to Mike's original query when he said "[N]o war ribbons when he could be an SNCO or an officer. Promotion to which ranks would require service during hostilities." Indeed, that is why I started a new paragraph and said "in response to Mike's original query..." That obviously had nothing to do with you or your response as it was not even an issue you had addressed. In retrospect, however, I do see how you could have been confused by my reference to "you" (meaning Mike), which is a shame as we have no disagreement on this point.

As to your suggestion that there is any cuff lace apparent in the picture, there is no question but that the crown is readily visible. I will leave it to you to explain why any officer would wear both the crown and the lace at the same time. They were mutually exclusive, the lace serving to replace the crown. To say he has both the lace and the crown would be rather like suggesting that an officer in RFC service dress would wear both cuff rank and epaulet rank at the same time. It wasn't done. Nor, in any event, would a 2nd Lieutenant (the only 1918-1919 rank that wore the cuff crown and eagle combination) ever have worn the "broad" lace you believe you see. It was half width (and, even then, was only applied concurrently with removal of the crown).

My disagreement with you is nothing personal. I just think you have misinterpretted the photo and I have explained, factually, why I believe that to be the case. Inasmuch as the purpose of this post is to provide Mike with correct information, I would encourage anyone who believes I am incorrect, whether an old hand or a first time poster, to say so and to explain the factual basis for that disagreement in order to make sure Mike gets a correct answer.

mikehowat · 2 January 2012, 07:29 PM

Thank you for the facts on the uniform. It has been tied down nicely to a few months at the end of 1918.
I have had a very frustrating day trying to find the gazetting. Which Graham should I contact - there are about ten potential members?
Tks again
Mike

wingandprop · 3 January 2012, 10:02 PM

I suspect he is talking about Graeme, from Kent. See the "DFC Ribbon Revisited" note under Medals and Decorations. He has a post there.