Palmer Aero Cord Tyres sizes neededs, please?

[modelhound]

Good people,

It is my intention to make decals of this
often overlooked marking. My plan is to
custom print each order to match to
customers specs. As there is no default
sizes for the wheels of the same aeroplane
issued as different kits the customer will
provide me with the outside and inside diameters
of the tires of their particular kit and I will
size to fit. Not a problem in Corel.

I have finished my drawing of the lettering
but I need to know the sizes of the tyres as
used on the various aeroplanes.

For example: 700 X 75 is called for on the
Sopwith Camel, I think.

Even if you know only one, please help.

Thank You,

Mike the modelhound

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Hi Mike,

DH9 - 700 x 125

I think the Pup is actually 700 x 75 and the Camel is 700 x 100. Have to go to the shops but I will see if I can think of some more.

Regards,

David.

[John McKenzie]

Hi Dave ......You mean that they still sell 'em in the shops over there ???

FE2b size is ........750 x 125 .

BE2.A & B initially used Dunlop tyres( 28"x2.5" if I remember correctly ),..Then Palmer were sometimes retro fitted to those still in service .

Palmer : BE2..All series & BE12 & 12A .....700 x 100
Ditto for RE8 series ............................700 x 100
Ditto for SE5 / SE5 a ..........................700 x 100

John

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Hi John,

I wish they did mate! Wouldn't it be nice if we could just walk into some long forgotten about warehouse and just order whatever we would like to? I heard that this happened with a pair of Vickers Vimy propellors, which were requested more or less as a joke, and were supposedly found in the warehouse somewhere! It can't be a very common occurrence these days though, if it is true. Unfortunately these days virtually everything has to be remanufactured.

That's very interesting about the Dunlop tyres. Do you mean the Dunlop Cord Aero Tyre? I had forgotten that they used Imperial sizes, but I seem to recall that now that you mention it. I always thought it was very strange that Palmer used metric sizes. British engineering drawings are very interesting. You can find Metric, decimal Imperial or fractional Imperial measurements on the same drawing! They used a real mixture.

Given that you have stated that the FE2b used 750 x 125 tyres, I might have made a mistake about the DH9. Maybe it used 750 x 125, and not 700 x 125. The DH9 here in Australia had Dunlop Cord Aero Tyres fitted to it at some point, although there was some doubt about the rims. They were supposed to have been from a Westland Wapiti, but I don't think anyone found out whether they were or not with any degree of certainty. I seem to remember that they had, as you mention an Imperial size written on them, probably about 28 x 5 the 28 rather than the 28 x 2.5 that you mentioned - about twice the width / profile of the BE2 tyres as fitted before the size was revised, I would suggest.

Regards,

David.

[Maxim08]

FYI I'm reading Chaz Bowyer's bio of Albert Ball and he records that the standard 700 x 100 tires were replaced with 700 x 75s as one of the many mods that Ball made to his first SE.

Regards
John

[John McKenzie]

Hi All...

John,
Interesting that that would have been allowed on technical grounds , but by then Ball might be a special case .


David ,
I cannot speak for the later Dunlops as I only have some knowledge of the early set up on BE2 & BE2A/B's.....I am not able to locate the drawing so can only go from memory & photos etc.
Certainly , they were beaded edge type , but rather a shallow drop centre , not at all like the (later?) Palmer tyres , in respect to how the latter fitted onto , and the actual profile of their rim .
The printing probably did say " Dunlop Aero Cord ---28 x 2 1/2 "....but that is reliant on memory alone so possibly is suspect .
As to how the Fabric covers were fitted ...this was completely different to what is now thought normal :-
On either side of the rim and just inside diametrically ,... a Ring of M/S wire 1/8" dia was attached at intervals of about 2" ( memory) with short 1/2" long fillings beads of weld such that the wire was held away from the rim , and provided a 1/8" gap all the way around the circumference ,.... interrupted only by the 1/2" beads .
The Fabric cover was made at about 1" smaller in dia. than this wire , and this was fitted with eyelets in the reinforcing tape around its circumference ...( same as normal fabric cover lacing tape edges) .
The fabric cover was laced to & around the wire , with a lock loop every 4"(memory) or so .
[ Note , RAFM example :The fabric man , engaged that particular job , being a senior employee ,..."did very much his own thing" with regard to this and the covers , rather than " as per drawing ", ....are fitted with Palmer type hooks , around the wire ].


Ref Drawings .( This mostly in respect to " The Factory" )....The earliest drawings were all Fractional Imperial *, which suited the majority of machinery in use at the time , which was mostly calibrated in 1/64" increment dials .....As drawing offices expanded & " professionalised " around 1912/14 , so also the newer Standards for drawing came into force , ...Decimal Imperial , and still in conjunction with 1st angle projection presentation .

For a number of reasons , eg... when external manufacturers such as Ball Bearings Co's , gave their products dimensions as Metric ,...so such dimensions were recorded on the aircraft component manufacturing drawings .....especially so , when early fractional conversions* were inconvenient .
Somewhat later , 3rd angle projection took over as the standard drawing presentation form ....However on some Sopwith ( Baby) drawings , 1st & 3rd angle are present on the very Same actual drawing !..( guarentee'd to confuse !)

Regards John.