Did MvR speak English???

misshistory619 · 30 January 2011, 10:02 AM

Hello Everyone!
I know MvR came in to contact with British pilots and communicated with them, but how?? Was he able to speak English? Or did they speak German?? And if he did speak English, was he able to speak it well? And where did he learn it?

Thanks!

Sagittarius · 30 January 2011, 11:07 AM

According to his book, he did changed at least a few English words with his opponents. But I guess it was not much more than a few phrases and some basic vocabulary.

redintheskies · 30 January 2011, 11:28 AM

i believe MvR knew a little bit of english, as according to his book. how he learned some, i don't know, but he could have learned some from prisoners somehow, someone taught him or he could have picked up bits and pieces from different places.

FOKKERJ · 30 January 2011, 12:32 PM

Hallo misshistory619,

Wilkommen to the Aerodrome.

I don't have a clue as to whether on not Manfred spoke English, but it's just possible that he did come from an affluent family and was educated. I would imagine that most educated people knew more than one language back then.

Cheers, FOKKERJ

rammjaeger · 31 January 2011, 10:57 AM

MvR was Royal Prussian "Kadett" and learned at the "Kadettenanstalt Wahlstatt" in Silesia. The education at this kind of institutions was comparable to a German "Gymnasium" and included lessons in Latin, French and English language. I assume he was - like Immelmann - not very enthusiastic in learning languages (probably too lazy). As well most of us know there is a huge difference between learning a language at school and using the rest of the unforgotten words in real life years later. So, you can assume he was speaking English only on a very basic level. However, the term "the lords" was obviously well-known and frequently used for the British opponents in his Jasta and later in Jage I.

Hope this helps.

redintheskies · 31 January 2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammjaeger

MvR was Royal Prussian "Kadett" and learned at the "Kadettenanstalt Wahlstatt" in Silesia. The education at this kind of institutions was comparable to a German "Gymnasium" and included lessons in Latin, French and English language. I assume he was - like Immelmann - not very enthusiastic in learning languages (probably too lazy). As well most of us know there is a huge difference between learning a language at school and using the rest of the unforgotten words in real life years later. So, you can assume he was speaking English only on a very basic level. However, the term "the lords" was obviously well-known and frequently used for the British opponents in his Jasta and later in Jage I.

Hope this helps.

what i thought, although i did not know they would learn more than 2 languages. thank you!

Epee · 1 February 2011, 05:57 AM

The only language other than German that MvR mentions using is French. Now I think it is a safe assupsion that he, like every other serviceman, could garble out a few words in his opponents' tongue. However, phrases like, "Hands-up", "Surrender", Don't shoot", and "Do you have a light?" hardly count as "speaking" English.

We do know that he occasionally conversed with survivors of his victories (I dislike using the term "victim" for armed men who loose a fight) so there must have been a common language or translator. How many British/Commonwealth airmen would speak French (seems a natural fit since both victor and vanquished are "visiting" in France) or German?

rammjaeger · 1 February 2011, 07:19 AM

For all who are doubting that German Kadetts like Richthofen learned three languages:
Look at the following link which display Immelmann´s Zeugnis (scroll down to the bottom):
Flieger-Album.de ::: Immelmann, Max :::

Immelmann was trained at a Saxon Kadettenanstalt, v.Richthofen at a Prussian equivalent with the same lessons including Latin, French and English. You can read the words "Latein", "Französisch" and "Englisch" in the head of the displayed "Zeugnis".

French was more important than English language for people of German nobility and also more common and generally better known to members of nobility in this time, therefore they - incl. Richthofen - would prefer to speak French in most situations.

However, lacking diligence, interest and practice would limit the success of these language lessons as mentioned before. Immelmann spoke English with his opponents but frequently misunderstood the names of the latter.
Nevertheless, basic phrases would be even understood by lesser educated servicemen without higher educational training after 3, 4 years of war.

rammjaeger · 1 February 2011, 07:27 AM

I could imagine these phrases were sometimes really funny, maybe like:

"Mister enemy, niece to meet you!"

redintheskies · 1 February 2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epee

However, phrases like, "Hands-up", "Surrender", Don't shoot", and "Do you have a light?" hardly count as "speaking" English.

We do know that he occasionally conversed with survivors of his victories (I dislike using the term "victim" for armed men who loose a fight) so there must have been a common language or translator. How many British/Commonwealth airmen would speak French (seems a natural fit since both victor and vanquished are "visiting" in France) or German?

i like that! "do you have a light?" would seem so appropriate, but i don't think MvR smoked or drank much.