Sopwith pup in US Naval service

mike in calif · 20 November 2010, 10:36 AM

I'm trying to track down some info regarding PUPs operated by the US Navy around 1917. Serials A5655/5656 flown off of USS Idaho? Can anyone help with images or linkys?
Would these have been "navalized" PUPs as the Camels were? I'll be going thru my Datafile again but need some help.

StephenLawson · 20 November 2010, 11:34 AM

USS Idaho 1926 Cuba.

mike in calif · 20 November 2010, 09:31 PM

Thanks Stephen, I seem to have a tough time trying to acquire photos of said birds. I'm still trying though.

RLWP · 21 November 2010, 02:53 AM

At the risk of becoming a one-trick-pony, I've briefly checked the Air-Britain book and I haven't spotted anything about this yet.

Richard

RLWP · 22 November 2010, 10:30 AM

Yeee-harrrr, ride that pony...

Um, sorry.

Chapter 25: In other lands has a brief reference to a document called "Serial list of designating numbers of Naval Aircraft"* which includes two "Pups", serial numbers A5655 and A5656. As the book says, 'the authenticity of this identification is impaired' as these aircraft had 130hp Clerget engines (which Pups didn't), and A5658 and A5659 were Sopwith Camels.

Richard

* the book also notes that the referenced document is undated and of unknown origin

flypaper · 22 November 2010, 02:21 PM

Hello Mike.

I've been looking into early US Navy aviation for awhile now and other then the 2 serial numbers you listed as belonging to Sopwith Pups I haven't found a thing about Pups serving in the US Navy. From my research I have found that the USN only used 4 types of aircraft to launch off of US Battleships...the HD-1 (10), Ni28, Sopwith Strutter, and the Camel.

The first launch of off a USN BB platform was a Camel flown by Lt. Cmdr. McDonnell USN, on March 9 1919 at Gitmo Cuba. It seems the Camel was only used in testing and training and was not to be part of a future ships company-one Ni28 and one Strutter were the planed BB complement.

In 1921 the compressed air catapult began being used on the BB's and by 1922 the launch platforms had been removed from the BB's. 1922 also saw the launch of the USS Langley as CV-1. Because of the use of radio receivers used on the Strutters the Navy now turned it attention to using the catapult launched aircraft in the Scouting role. Ships that did not have room for catapults were forced to lower raise and their Scout with a winch.

I'm afraid I don't know the meaning of the USS Idaho 1926 Cuba reference by another poster. At that time the Idaho already had its catapult system in place, its turret launch platforms removed and was more than likely outfitted with Vought aircraft used in the scouting role.

I have added a few pics of the Idaho showing its change from launch platform to Type A and possibly to Type P catapult.

USS Idaho 1920 with its forward and rear launch platforms- I cant make out any aircraft aboard in this photo.

USS Idaho 1922 -If you look close enough you can make out aircraft and catapult at the stern and what I take as a launch platform on a stern upper turret.

USS Idaho 1925 underway in the Pacific stern catapult Type A or P.

USS Idaho- 1925 A good shot clearly showing stern catapult with what appears to be a Vought Scouting aircraft facing aft.

USS Idaho- 1926/27 Another great shot this time with 2 aircraft at the stern catapult.

USS Idaho-1926/27 A close up of the above picture, definitely not 'Pups'.

Flypaper

RLWP · 22 November 2010, 02:42 PM

Reading between the lines of the Sopwith Pup book, J.M Bruce's speculation was that the "Pups" are misidentified Camels and that there is only one source for this piece of (mis)information

Richard

flypaper · 22 November 2010, 05:34 PM

Here's a catapult Type A test, you would think that 'shooting' a Curtiss N9 would peal the wings right off of her!

Flypaper

StephenLawson · 22 November 2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLWP

Reading between the lines of the Sopwith Pup book, J.M Bruce's speculation was that the "Pups" are misidentified Camels and that there is only one source for this piece of (mis)information

Richard

Agreed and 1926 seems awful late for even Camels being tested. Here is a bit of further information.

Battleship Photo Archive Sopwith Camel

The source of current misinformation

Here is a bit of fun on US Navy and Marine serials
Click here.

flypaper · 22 November 2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

The U.S. Navy also employed the Sopwith Pup with famed Australian/British test pilot Edgar Percival testing the use of carrier-borne fighters. In 1926, Percival was catapulted in a Pup off the battleship USS Idaho at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

I would love to know how this bit of information came to be. I have found no evidence of Mr Percival flying a 'Pup' off of the USS Idaho. My feelings is this is just a case of misidentification of the 'Camel'.

Flypaper