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12 November 2010, 11:00 AM
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Troy, NY (USA)
Posts: 7,821
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Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #821
This was someone's pride and joy.
(Note: depending on whether or not my home internet access problem is fixed, I may not be able to respond until Monday.) Scoreboard at the end of # 820: Hanriot HD 6 142.70 Varese2002 ¤¤ 110.40 Dave_Kent ¤¤ 92.20 Rbailey ¤ 41.40 richard B ¤ 33.30 Cruze ¤ 29.55 LODZERMENSCH 29.00 Aquilius ¤ 23.40 YavorD 22.35 Froggy 16.90 Flamingo 13.80 Rod Filan 11.00 Breguet 10.45 GregE 10.30 Patrick 09.70 Dan-San 09.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger 09.50 matte_kudasai 08.40 JohnMacG 07.70 EdStevens 07.60 trp81 07.10 Colin A. Owers 07.25 Ermeio 06.70 Ampovandak 06.70 Berman 06.10 joegertler 06.00 Eric Goedkoop 05.90 Doc 05.70 AROTH 05.60 ercoupepilot 05.30 Crimso 05.30 Der Grüne Flieger 05.20 Maze 05.20 Gilles 05.10 bshatzer 05.00 Tom L 05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours 04.75 SCMc ........................may start immediately 04.70 dpolglaze 04.40 Ross Moorhouse 04.30 edmondthieffry 04.30 HoHun 04.20 Rufe 04.00 greenknight 04.00 John McKenzie 03.90 Brad 03.00 Catfish 03.00 Linhawk 02.50 Gregoire 02.50 Rexee 02.50 '14-'18aviationcollector 02.30 ckingh5 02.10 Crankcase 02.00 austin08 02.00 Rickenbaron 01.70 Kilian 01.60 airplane176 01.60 sergio_vitalio 01.50 Albatros_Ace 01.30 Cigogne 01.20 Ransom E. Olds 01.00 Old Man 01.00 Cliff 01.00 cubsfan4life 01.00 gregorydquist 01.00 Luf-Rick 01.00 Mike Westorp 01.00 paolomiana 01.00 Peter Zambori 01.00 rammjaeger 01.00 SL DIII 01.00 Tripehound 01.00 albatros1234 00.90 Stig Jarlevik 00.80 Machinbird 00.80 Mad Mac 00.80 tbstreet 00.80 toxisch 00.60 Sreiko 00.50 Martin Irvine 00.40 Vilkata 00.30 albapfalzd30 00.30 Miroslav Pokorny 00.30 Nieuport14 00.20 Paul_J._Fisher Previous challenges are at: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* -- Don't forget the rules : 1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #......" 2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread. 3. The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster. 4. The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference). 5. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified (always check the list at Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's -Aircraft Challenge* -- when in doubt !). 6. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted. 7. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer. 8. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification. 9. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge. 10. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge. 11. The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules is BREGUET. |
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12 November 2010, 11:00 PM
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#2 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Based on the square wing tips and the inter-wing ailerons below the mid point that extend past the wing tips, I believe that this is the Thompson-Day tractor biplane. This machine was used by De Lloyd Thompson to set an altitude record of 15,580 ft in 1914.
Dave |
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13 November 2010, 06:47 AM
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#3 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Troy, NY (USA)
Posts: 7,821
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It does look remarkably like the Thompson-Day, but it is not. I was worried for a while that we might have another of those ambiguities or mis-identifications, but I detect enough of a difference to think that my sources are OK. (And obviously I am on line and hope to stay there.)
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13 November 2010, 07:07 AM
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#4 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Well then, for the same reasons, this may be the 1913 Lille tractor biplane designed by Vought.
Dave |
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13 November 2010, 09:02 AM
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#5 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Troy, NY (USA)
Posts: 7,821
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Sorry, Dave. Not that one either.
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13 November 2010, 09:08 AM
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#6 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Gosh, the Cato-Bounds biplane of 1915 is another good candidate. It went through some changes of engine, undercarriage etc. and might well have looked like 821 at one point.
Dave |
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13 November 2010, 10:17 AM
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#7 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Troy, NY (USA)
Posts: 7,821
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Still not there Dave.
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13 November 2010, 11:42 AM
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#8 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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So, back to where I started, the Thompson-Day, which seemed the best fit. Charles H. Day became the Chief Designer for Sloane shortly after producing the Thompson-Day. It would make sense that his first design for Sloane was a development of one of his own successful designs. I speculate 821 to be a Sloane Exhibition biplane.
Dave |
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13 November 2010, 12:01 PM
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#9 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands
Posts: 5,305
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This is the 1916 Biplane of Fred Dekor aka Fred Korstad. Fred Dekor became famous in 1912 by early post flights.
I have a picture of the same scene but from another angle, clearly showing the same in-between-wings ailerons, rectangular looking rudder (front and back), fuselage incorporating the engine (probably a rotary engine). Kees Addendum: the engine fitted to the machine was a Gyro motor. DeKor was one of the first Americans to do the loop the loop.
__________________
I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. - Jorge Luis Borges Last edited by Varese2002; 13 November 2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Addendum |
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13 November 2010, 08:07 PM
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#10 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Troy, NY (USA)
Posts: 7,821
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Kees has it. It is the De Kor tractor biplane of 1914. De Kor was a well-known stunt pilot whose specialty was loops. He started in 1911 with a Martin biplane, and did a lot of his flying in the Caribbean. There is a Jamaican web page that refers to his flying there in 1916 and includes a picture of this plane, so it evidently existed at least from 1914-1916.
It was built in Los Angeles, and the similarity to the Thompson-Day machine makes one suspect that it may have been also built by Charles Day, who was active there at that time. But that is speculation, as I have seen no evidence of it. Scoreboard at the end of # 821: De Kor tractor biplane 143.70 Varese2002 ¤¤ 110.40 Dave_Kent ¤¤ 92.20 Rbailey ¤ 41.40 richard B ¤ 33.30 Cruze ¤ 29.55 LODZERMENSCH 29.00 Aquilius ¤ 23.40 YavorD 22.35 Froggy 16.90 Flamingo 13.80 Rod Filan 11.00 Breguet 10.45 GregE 10.30 Patrick 09.70 Dan-San 09.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger 09.50 matte_kudasai 08.40 JohnMacG 07.70 EdStevens 07.60 trp81 07.10 Colin A. Owers 07.25 Ermeio 06.70 Ampovandak 06.70 Berman 06.10 joegertler 06.00 Eric Goedkoop 05.90 Doc 05.70 AROTH 05.60 ercoupepilot 05.30 Crimso 05.30 Der Grüne Flieger 05.20 Maze 05.20 Gilles 05.10 bshatzer 05.00 Tom L 05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours 04.75 SCMc ........................may start immediately 04.70 dpolglaze 04.40 Ross Moorhouse 04.30 edmondthieffry 04.30 HoHun 04.20 Rufe 04.00 greenknight 04.00 John McKenzie 03.90 Brad 03.00 Catfish 03.00 Linhawk 02.50 Gregoire 02.50 Rexee 02.50 '14-'18aviationcollector 02.30 ckingh5 02.10 Crankcase 02.00 austin08 02.00 Rickenbaron 01.70 Kilian 01.60 airplane176 01.60 sergio_vitalio 01.50 Albatros_Ace 01.30 Cigogne 01.20 Ransom E. Olds 01.00 Old Man 01.00 Cliff 01.00 cubsfan4life 01.00 gregorydquist 01.00 Luf-Rick 01.00 Mike Westorp 01.00 paolomiana 01.00 Peter Zambori 01.00 rammjaeger 01.00 SL DIII 01.00 Tripehound 01.00 albatros1234 00.90 Stig Jarlevik 00.80 Machinbird 00.80 Mad Mac 00.80 tbstreet 00.80 toxisch 00.60 Sreiko 00.50 Martin Irvine 00.40 Vilkata 00.30 albapfalzd30 00.30 Miroslav Pokorny 00.30 Nieuport14 00.20 Paul_J._Fisher |
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