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26 June 2010, 07:51 PM
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 772
Hello:
As suggested in my last Challenge, I think this one may be difficult. It’s tough to know however, as someone may know the machine well, or perhaps have been waiting for the chance to post it themselves. We will see. Dave The scoreboard after Challenge #771, R.A.F. S.E. 2 Rebuilt 133.90 Varese2002 ¤¤ 100.70 Dave_Kent ¤ 84.20 Rbailey ¤ 37.40 richard B ¤ 33.30 Cruze ¤ 27.00 Aquilius ¤ 26.30 Lodzermensch ¤ 22.20 YavorD 21.35 Froggy 16.90 Flamingo 13.80 Rod Filan 11.00 Breguet 10.45 GregE 10.30 Patrick 09.70 Dan-San 09.50 matte_kudasai 08.40 JohnMacG 07.70 EdStevens 07.60 trp81 07.10 Colin A. Owers 07.25 Ermeio 06.70 Ampovandak 06.70 Berman 06.10 joegertler 06.00 Eric Goedkoop 05.90 Doc 05.70 AROTH 05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger 05.60 ercoupepilot 05.30 Crimso 05.30 Der Grüne Flieger 05.20 Maze 05.20 Gilles 05.10 bshatzer 05.00 Tom L 05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours 04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately 04.40 Ross Moorhouse 04.30 edmondthieffry 04.20 Rufe 04.00 greenknight 04.00 John McKenzie 03.90 Brad 03.50 HoHun 03.00 Catfish 03.00 SCMc 02.50 Gregoire 02.50 Rexee 02.30 ckingh5 02.10 Crankcase 02.00 austin08 02.00 Rickenbaron 01.70 Kilian 01.60 airplane176 01.60 sergio_vitalio 01.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector 01.50 Albatros_Ace 01.30 Cigogne 01.20 Ransom E. Olds 01.00 Cliff 01.00 cubsfan4life 01.00 gregorydquist 01.00 Luf-Rick 01.00 Mike Westorp 01.00 paolomiana 01.00 Peter Zambori 01.00 rammjaeger 01.00 SL DIII 01.00 Tripehound 00.90 Stig Jarlevik 00.80 Machinbird 00.80 Mad Mac 00.80 tbstreet 00.80 toxisch 00.60 Sreiko 00.50 Martin Irvine 00.40 Vilkata 00.30 albapfalzd30 00.30 Miroslav Pokorny 00.30 Nieuport14 00.20 Paul_J._Fisher Previous Challenges: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* -- Quote: The Rules of the Challenge are: -The thread title must be "Bréguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #......" -The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread. -The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster. -The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference). -Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified (always check the list at Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's -Aircraft Challenge* -- when in doubt !). -If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted. -Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer. -To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification. -The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge. -If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge. -The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules is BREGUET |
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27 June 2010, 08:32 AM
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#2 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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If you happen to have a wheel fetish, this may help. Though not from the Challenge machine, it is of the same type.
Dave |
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27 June 2010, 08:34 PM
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#3 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Still very quiet here. I guess there are no players with wheel fetishes.
This may be of more help, another photo of the machine. I admit it is difficult to see much detail in the photo, but that’s really not the point. What’s important to you is that this photo was taken about 45 years after the Challenge photo. Dave |
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28 June 2010, 12:12 AM
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#4 |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kingdom of Hannover, Lossex ;-), Germany
Posts: 1,035
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Hi,
well it looks like a Caudron, with some strange vertical stabilizers. And wheel fetish ?!  I count two ordinary-looking ones ...  just to add a bit to the confusion  Greetings Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 28 June 2010 at 12:17 AM. |
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28 June 2010, 06:28 AM
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#5 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Good observations!!
This is not a Caudron, but the same observations are made by a source somewhere online. That source, however, is not the source of the photos. Dave |
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28 June 2010, 06:52 PM
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#6 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Still quiet, so some more info.
The machine dates from 1917. It was apparently evaluated by the military, but was rejected. The machine was destroyed in a fire on May 12, 1960. A drawing is attached. Dave |
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29 June 2010, 01:27 AM
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#7 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,249
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Who hit that thing with the ugly stick ?
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29 June 2010, 06:59 AM
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#8 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Ugly?, well, OK, not as attractive as many machines of the era.
The Challenge machine was built in one of the nations that participated in the FWW and was, perhaps not surprisingly, the only aircraft produced by its designer / company. Dave |
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29 June 2010, 01:47 PM
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#9 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: FRance
Posts: 4,375
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Bonsoir ŕ tous
It could be a Bancroft (Basil or Louis) Bancroft Airplane Co, E Hartford CT.) Extract from Aerofile Site "1917-18 = 1pOB; 50-60hp Anzani (uncertain). Wood and fabric design described as being influenced by Caudron G.3. Employing a two-control (rudder and elevator) system adapted from 1910 Voisin system, it had a small podlike fuselage with twin booms, fabric covered for lateral stability, and two-bay wings that were fairly standard biplane style but minus ailerons. Reportedly underwent Army evaluation, likely as a trainer, but was rejected and stored away in a barn. Discovered c.1961 and was undergoing restoration when it was destroyed in a shop fire." and here too http://www.eaa166.org/Newsletters/ENEW0607.pdf "So, what in the world was this Bancroft airplane? We learned that it was designed and built by Louis Frederick Bancroft, in 1917. Bancroft was born on October 12, 1874, in Windsor Locks; Connecticut, and educated in the East Windsor school system. He had served in the Spanish-American War and later opened a realty company in Hartford. He was for a time a tobacco farmer and did other odd jobs before he became interested in airplanes and their design. As it turned out, only that one airplane was ever built, which was to have been powered by an Anzani radial, air-cooled engine. The ship had a very unique design, but was basically a biplane, with a wingspan of 28'4". The most noticeable feature of the design was the conventional tail supported by the patented and canted surface (fabric covered) tail booms. They were to provide the lateral control, as stated in his patent. Bancroft did not wish to infringe on the Wright Brother's wing-warping patent." Impossible to find one photo of that strange plane on the web ! Cordialement Bruno |
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29 June 2010, 02:30 PM
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#10 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,575
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Congratulations Bruno!!! (and Thanks).
This is indeed the Bancroft biplane. Point and 773 to you. Dave The scoreboard after Challenge #772, the Bancroft biplane 133.90 Varese2002 ¤¤ 100.70 Dave_Kent ¤ 84.20 Rbailey ¤ 37.40 richard B ¤ 33.30 Cruze ¤ 27.00 Aquilius ¤ 26.30 Lodzermensch ¤ 22.35 Froggy 22.20 YavorD 16.90 Flamingo 13.80 Rod Filan 11.00 Breguet 10.45 GregE 10.30 Patrick 09.70 Dan-San 09.50 matte_kudasai 08.40 JohnMacG 07.70 EdStevens 07.60 trp81 07.10 Colin A. Owers 07.25 Ermeio 06.70 Ampovandak 06.70 Berman 06.10 joegertler 06.00 Eric Goedkoop 05.90 Doc 05.70 AROTH 05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger 05.60 ercoupepilot 05.30 Crimso 05.30 Der Grüne Flieger 05.20 Maze 05.20 Gilles 05.10 bshatzer 05.00 Tom L 05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours 04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately 04.40 Ross Moorhouse 04.30 edmondthieffry 04.20 Rufe 04.00 greenknight 04.00 John McKenzie 03.90 Brad 03.50 HoHun 03.00 Catfish 03.00 SCMc 02.50 Gregoire 02.50 Rexee 02.30 ckingh5 02.10 Crankcase 02.00 austin08 02.00 Rickenbaron 01.70 Kilian 01.60 airplane176 01.60 sergio_vitalio 01.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector 01.50 Albatros_Ace 01.30 Cigogne 01.20 Ransom E. Olds 01.00 Cliff 01.00 cubsfan4life 01.00 gregorydquist 01.00 Luf-Rick 01.00 Mike Westorp 01.00 paolomiana 01.00 Peter Zambori 01.00 rammjaeger 01.00 SL DIII 01.00 Tripehound 00.90 Stig Jarlevik 00.80 Machinbird 00.80 Mad Mac 00.80 tbstreet 00.80 toxisch 00.60 Sreiko 00.50 Martin Irvine 00.40 Vilkata 00.30 albapfalzd30 00.30 Miroslav Pokorny 00.30 Nieuport14 00.20 Paul_J._Fisher |
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