Polish ranks

[Greybeard]

Although a bit off forums topic, I would like to know what were Polish flying personnel's ranks during war against Russia in 1920.

Thanks,
GB

[Sherman]

Regards,
Sherman

[Lodzermensch]

Hello Greybeard,

There was no difference between military ranks of the army and the military aviation. Here you have Polish ranks (left) and its English equivalents (right).

Szeregowy – private
Kapral – corporal
Plutonowy – major corporal
Sierżant – sergeant
Starszy sierżant – major sergeant
Podchorąży – second warrant officer
Chorąży – warrant officer
Podporucznik – second lieutenant or sub-lieutenant
Porucznik – lieutenant
Kapitan i rotmistrz – equivalent ranks – captain and cavalry captain
Major – major
Podpułkownik – lieutenant colonel
Pułkownik – colonel
Generał podporucznik (in modern sources referred to as generał brygady) – brigadier general.

In case of flying personnel, ranks mentioned above were supplemented by words:

Pilot – for pilots
Obserwator – for observers

but those terms were not elements of military ranks.

Regards

Marek

[Greybeard]

Sherman, Lodzermensch,

a big thanks for your kind and accurate answers.

Respectfully,
GB

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

You are welcome, Greybeard.

I think, I owe you some explanation to avoid confusion.

Tomasz Kopański compared Polish ranks with RAF equivalents existing since August 1919 (if my memory serves well). I do not share this point of view. British uses unique terminology for airforce ranks, attuned to the organisation structure of RAF. As I said in my first post - Polish Military Aviation has never had its own ranks – in contrary to RNAS or RAF after 1919 for example. That is why my listing is referred to the army ranks in their English version. In other words – I have tried to translate Polish ranks to English language. It is hardly acceptable for me to explain that Rotmistrz means Flight Lieutenant. Does anybody call Manfred von Richthofen a Flight Lieutenant? Pułkownik may be an equal rank with RAF Wing Commander but we have never had units called Wings in our aviation (except PAF in the Great Britain during the Second WW but that was completely different story).

Regards

Marek

[Greybeard]

Thanks Lodzermensch for your additional explanation.

Indeed, RAF was first independent air force, as far as I know, founded April 1st, 1918 and I guess at same time made its unique rank order.

Nevertheless, comparison with RAF ranks helped too understanding of level of responsibility (e.g.: presumably a squadron was lead by a Major, wasn't it?). This make me curious about Poland military aviation organization of time: I heard of "Eskadra" and "Kosciuzko", but what was their consistency?

I understand that non-independent "flying corps" kept their own respective ranks, like example you mention: the venerable "Rittmeister" Manfred von Richthofen. Unfortunately these titles doesn't help to understand role and responsibility in new aerial environment. So, although MvR's rank of "Master of Cavalry" is quite correct, couldn't made understood even if he was a pilot or not.

Regards,
GB

[Lodzermensch]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

...

Nevertheless, comparison with RAF ranks helped too understanding of level of responsibility (e.g.: presumably a squadron was lead by a Major, wasn't it?). This make me curious about Poland military aviation organization of time: I heard of "Eskadra" and "Kosciuzko", but what was their consistency?


Regards,
GB

There is the rub. This is just the misunderstanding I wanted to avoid. If someone who is not Polish, reads that Polish Major was a rank equivalent with Squadron Leader, he thinks this way –

Aha! Major was a leader of squadron in Polish aviation. Right?

WRONG!!!

There was no correlation between military rank and function one occupied in a structure of Polish Military Aviation – in contrary to RAF (I am still talking about 1919-1920 period).

An elementary unit of Polish Military Aviation of that period, called Eskadra (adopted from French Escadrille) could be commanded by any officer – major, captain or lieutenant according to current situation in the unit. On one hand - an officer entrusted with the position of commander has kept his current rank (he was not promoted to a rank adequate to his function because there was no rank adequate to the function); on the other hand - commanding officer removed from office did not loose his rank. That is why I prefer translation rather than comparison of ranks.

By the way – Polish Rotmistrz and German Rittmeister mean literally the same.

As for the organisation structure of Polish Military Aviation – as I said, Eskadra (let’s call it Squadron) was an elementary unit. Formally, its establishment consists of: 6 pilots, 2 observers and 8 aircraft – since December 1918. In autumn 1919 it was changed: 10 pilots, 10 observers and 10 aircraft for Eskadra (squadron), except fighting squadrons of course. In reality, the number of flying personnel and airplanes in particular unit had always been lower.

Squadrons located in the same place or allocated to particular Armies, were grouped in bigger unit called Grupa Lotnicza (Air Group) later on renamed Dyon (a term difficult to translate). In some respects – one can say that an Air Group was an equivalent of RAF Wing or French Groupe de Combat. Officer in command of an Air Group could be in a rank of Colonel as well as Lieutenant.

It is just a brief capture of the topic as it is much more complex. Unfortunately, I do not know any comprehensive book written in English, which covers this topic.

Regards

Marek

[Greybeard]

Thank you, Lodzermensch, for additional information; I asked just because I didn't know, sorry if I guessed wrong.

Anyway, now my knowledge is improved.

Only one more question, please: what was Kosciuzko?

S!
GB

[SCMc]

HI GB,

I believe that Eskadra Kościuszko was an American volunteer squadron flying for Poland. I would guess that Kościuszko was the name of a person.

Steve

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

More precisely – 7 Eskadra Mysliwska imienia Koścuszki (the 7th Kościuszko Pusuit Squadron) was a Polish unit however most of its flying personnel were American volunteers – all-in 17 flyers.

Here is a brief history of the unit.

Polish 7th Air Escadrille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is some info on Tadeusz Kościuszko.

Tadeusz Ko?ciuszko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

Marek