German Aircraft Cockpit Section Identification

IMPERIAL QUEST · 26 July 2009, 08:47 PM

I would most appreciate any input on this piece. The period label states that this aircraft was brought down near Noviant France in 1918. The very preliminary research I have done led me to believe that this section may have been from an aircraft in Jasta 14 commanded by Rudolf Berthold because of the proximity to the area where it was downed, however he was commander in 1916, and had moved on by 1918. As a result, I am not sure that the planes would have retained their blue fuselages that would have been painted as such under his command.

My initial thoughts because of the medium/dark blue paint on the piece, were that it was from a Fokker D. VII as that type of aircraft was flown by that particular Jasta. Now, however, I am having doubts about that thought as the shape and lack of machine gun cutout doesn't seem to fit my theory. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

FOKKERJ · 26 July 2009, 10:16 PM

Hi IMPERIAL QUEST,

Without further research, I don't know. It is very interesting though.
I have looked at Pfalz D.III, Albatros D.II (among other Albatrosse), and even an S.E.5a which looked the closest with it's more oblong shape.

No perfect match....

Good Luck, FOKKERJ

Koloman Mayrhofer · 27 July 2009, 12:01 AM

hallo,

not from a fokker D VII.
certainly not typical for any albatros single seater.
the reinforcing strips along the joints on the inner side are also not typical pfalz. they use paper or linen strips. just as albators did over the scarf joints.

better pictures would be of great help to determine the way of construction which might lead to a producer.
never came across something on a german or austrian plane.
the material would give some indications too. is it mahogany or birch plywood?

cheers
koloman mayrhofer

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 06:09 AM

Thanks very much for the replies guys. I'll take some close shots of the inner joints and lamination and post later this evening. I'll also see if I can determine the wood type.

Steve

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 06:25 AM

Here is something interesting I just stumbled upon. Tell me what you think about this photo of a A.E.G. G.IV Bomber.

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 02:52 PM

I have been doing quite a bit of searching today, and have found a few photos of a DFW Reconnaissance aircraft that this could be from. I never thought it would be so difficult to nail it down. I know the pictures aren't definitive enough, but if I can find other photos of the top/cockpit area, I could have found my plane, or merely eliminate another from the list. There are some very strong simililarities in the profile of the cockpit area to my piece...very strong

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 07:16 PM

After more investigating, I feel my theory on Berthold weakening, however, I am not ready to give up on the theory altogether...yet. Any how, here are some more detailed shots of the construction of the piece.

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 07:17 PM

More shots of the underside supports, lamination,and access hole border.

FOKKERJ · 27 July 2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMPERIAL QUEST

After more investigating, I feel my theory on Berthold weakening, however, I am not ready to give up on the theory altogether...yet. Any how, here are some more detailed shots of the construction of the piece.

Looking at the side profile it reminds me of the Sopwith Dolphin, but I don't see the exit holes for the twin Vickers. Also I don't know if that part was sheet metal or ply.

Are you sure this isn't from a kayak?

Good Luck, FOKKERJ

IMPERIAL QUEST · 27 July 2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOKKERJ

Looking at the side profile it reminds me of the Sopwith Dolphin, but I don't see the exit holes for the twin Vickers. Also I don't know if that part was sheet metal or ply.

Are you sure this isn't from a kayak?

Good Luck, FOKKERJ

I have absolute confidence in the piece and more so in the person from which it was obtained. The period label in old style writing and grammar of the period has been there a long, long time and is aged accordingly with the rest of the piece. I know the answer is out there waiting to be found. It may take a while, but I'll find the aircraft type eventually.