Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 606

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 606

As we are in the midst of holidays, this is a special fun item. Looks decidedly easy, but is it? Life of a design did not stop after 1918, but continued in some form or other. Picture has been presented as is, no photoshopping.



Try to give as much as you can of this machine

Cheers

Kees

Scoreboard at the start of Challenge # 606

113.80 Varese2002 ☼
78.20 Dave_Kent ☼
67.20 Rbailey ☼
33.30 Cruze☼
18.70 YavorD
18.65 Froggy
17.70 Aquilius
15.20 Flamingo
15.20 richard B
13.30 Rod Filan
12.90 Lodzermensch
09.50 matte_kudasai
08.40 JohnMacG
08.10 Breguet
07.70 Dan-San
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
06.70 Ampovandak
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.70 Doc
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.70 AROTH
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.45 GregE
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L..........................have to wait 12 hours

04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.20 Rufe
04.00 greenknight
04.70 Berman
02.50 Gregoire
02.50 Rexee
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 austin08
02.00 Brad
02.00 Rickenbaron
02.00 sobrien
01.70 Kilian
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.50 Albatros_Ace
01.30 Cigogne
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 airplane176
01.00 Catfish
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Mad Mac
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Previous Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* --


THE RULES

1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
4. The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
5. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
6. (always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
7. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
8. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
9. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
10. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
11. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
12. The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

I think this is regular Fokker D.VII which was rebuilt - in Germany as a two-seater version after the War. An additional seat was placed in front of the pilot's cockpit, machine guns, and ammunition containers were removed and the fuel tank was mounted in upper wing. My clues are – the overall look of standard Fokker D.VII except two cockpits, civil registration number and something what looks like a fuel tank in a center section of upper wing.

Greetings

Marek

[Froggy]

Bonjour à tous

The civil aircraft register for this D-446 gives that ID


" DLFW D VIIIa D-446
Luftfahrt verein/Essen
canceled on 04/32"

I dont know this plane-I just guess it should be a Fokker biplace
for aviation school with dual control ?


Cordialement
Bruno

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

Hello,

I think this is regular Fokker D.VII which was rebuilt - in Germany as a two-seater version after the War. An additional seat was placed in front of the pilot’s cockpit, machine guns, and ammunition containers were removed and the fuel tank was mounted in upper wing. My clues are – the overall look of standard Fokker D.VII except two cockpits, civil registration number and something what looks like a fuel tank in a center section of upper wing.

Greetings

Marek

Hi Marek, this is not a modified regular Fokker D.VII. [Regular means here a D.VII produced by the Fokker firm or one of its licencees]. Obviously the machine is based on the Fokker D.VII though.

Cheers

Kees

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

[Regular means here a D.VII produced by the Fokker firm or one of its licencees]

Well, generally speaking – I was thinking of using a standard airframe of Fokker D.VII but I have no idea who built this particular machine, where and when. I do not even know if it had any specific designation.

Cheers

Marek

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Froggy

Bonjour à tous

The civil aircraft register for this D-446 gives that ID


" DLFW D VIIIa D-446
Luftfahrt verein/Essen
canceled on 04/32"

I dont know this plane-I just guess it should be a Fokker biplace
for aviation school with dual control ?


Cordialement
Bruno

Intentionally I did not photoshop away the German civil registration D-446. You have found via the civil register some information on this firm and model. If you can give the full name of DLFW (or D.L.F.W) you earn the full point. Looking in the German civil register shows that quite a few D.L.F.W D.VIIIa machines were built D-407, D-446, D-700, D-891, D-1239, D-1440, D-1454, D-1527, D-2253.

A small hint, the full name of D.L.F.W can be found somewhere in the German register

Cheers

Kees

[Breguet]

There's actually quite a bit of info on this design by Huffer.

Go here for info which shows it was also designated the H9:

The Virtual Aviation Museum - DLFW H 9 / D VIII

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Breguet

There's actually quite a bit of info on this design by Huffar.

Go here for info which shows it was also designated the H9:

The Virtual Aviation Museum - DLFW H 9 / D VIII

Excellent research Breguet, have not found this. A little point, it is Hüffer (not Hüffar) who built the machine (also) in his own firm - Hüffer Flugzeugbau - as the Hüffar H 9. The DLFW D VIIIa and the Hüffar H 9 are one and the same machine, although built by different firms.

I will call this one a day when the full name of DLFW comes up. Again, the full name is given somewhere in the listing of the German civil air register (D-xxxx) somewhere on the internet.

Cheers

Kees

[Breguet]

I also noticed that D-1586 is described as: D.L.FII > D.VIIIA do you know anything about that?

Do you have any pictures of their B1?

Also D-1632 - D-1636 and D-2081 were SE5a's yet another thing I didn't know!!

Oh, and DLFW = Deutsche Lloyd Flugzeug-Werke/Berlin-Aldershof

[Varese2002]

Closing down this #606 Challenge.

After the war, the Deutsche Lloyd Flugzeug-Werke (DLFW) at Adlershof, under the supervision of the D.V.L., redesigned a Fok. D.VII into a two-seater. This variant was given the designation DLFW D.VIII. Unfortunately the protype was crashed when performing aerobatics too near the ground. Several more examples were turned out by Hüffer at Krefeld. One served as a flying laboraty for research conducted by the Technical University of Hanover; it was wrecked when landing in fog.
The DLFW D.VIII had the 160 hp Mercedes engine, but it was moved forward and the fuselage lengthened. The wing span and area were the saem as those of the Fok. D.VII.

Quoted from the excellent study of A.R. Weyl on the early years of Fokker (Fokker : the creative years. Putnam). Contains another picture of the DLFW D.VIII D-407 with on the fuselage in big letters 'TRUMF'.

The machine of the Challenge (D-446) was used as a trainer with the Essen flying club (Luftfahrtverein Essen). There cocarde is probably seen on the rudder. This must be at the time when flying for civilian purposes was again permitted in Germany.

Hüffer Flugzeugbau built the DLFW D.VIIIa sport biplane as the H 9 with a Daimler D III or a BMW IIIa / IV. Span is quoted as 8,90 meter, maximum speed 180 km/hr.
Hüffer was busy building other types, some based on old wartime models which were known under the DLFW marque as the DLFW B I (a reconditioned LVG B.III from 1917, registration D-448 for instance). The DLFW B II was a revision of the Albatros L 30. I have no pictures of them easily at hand at the moment.

Time did not stop at November 11, 1918 and life went on, hence the Germans produced within the constraints then put to them.

The literature is not explicit about the difference between the DLFW D.VIII and D.VIIIa. I think the official listing has the correct registration, but I could not find any difference between the D.VIII and D.VIIIa.

About the S.E.5 in Germany, these were used for a very long time. One of them even got a swastika on the side of its fuselage I have somewhere a picture of it, will search it out.

In the next post the administrative things (points etc.)

Cheers

Kees