French Plane No. 37

Ritterton · 6 July 2009, 08:09 PM

This arrived in the mail. I hope I didn't pump someone else out of the running for this one. It's a lost French Plane, No. 37, lost in either very late August 1916 or the first few days ( 1, 2 ) September 1916 as the card is written on 3 Sep 1916. The P.S. indicates its position and loss - Argonne.

I am kicking about google and this site to see what I can ascertain. Any suggestions are always appreciated.

Take care

R

Cigogne · 6 July 2009, 11:22 PM

From what I can see, the aircraft looks like the rear fuselage portion of a two-seat Nieuport Type 10 or 12. The gunner's rear cockpit is showing and the fuselage slopes diagonally upward behind the cockpit.

Froggy · 7 July 2009, 01:50 AM

Bonjour

Considering the position of the gunner cockpit ant the size of the rear stabilizer,it was a Nieuport XII-May be from escadrille N° 37 ?
i'll try to find the name of the squadron and the crew of this aircraft

Cordialement
Bruno

Ritterton · 7 July 2009, 07:57 AM

Cigone and Froggy - Thank you. I spent some time last night trying to match up the airplane and thought it had the sleekness of a Nieuport. So, at least I was headed down the right path with the style of aircraft.

Thanks again!

Doc · 7 July 2009, 08:36 AM

After 1 July 1916 through 3 Sept 1916, the only casualty losses from escadrille N-37 are listed as:

20 July (also listed as 21 July)-- Lt Henri Dagonet, who was WIA and DOW 22 July
24 Aug-- Cpl Henri Dangueuger in Nieuport N1552

As is well-known, these records are not perfect, and some casualties are listed without units. I do not know if these records would include POWs or not.

In July 1916, N-37, equipped with Nieuport 11s, was part of the fighter group in the Somme area called "de Cachy". Doc

Raineranton · 7 July 2009, 02:42 PM

Hello Ritterton,

it could be also the 08th of September 1916. (And I think it is.)

According to "The French Air Service War Chronology" Escadrille N.37 lost on this date a Nieuport 17. Sous Lieutenant Roger Prudhommeux was MIA.

Rainer

Cigogne · 7 July 2009, 10:39 PM

Raineranton,

Unfortunately, the fuselage of the wreckage doesn't match a Nieuport 17. It is a two-seat Nieuport 12 which was an artillery observation type.

Maybe we could check with Dennis Albin?

Froggy · 8 July 2009, 02:29 AM

Bonjour à tous

The only Nieuport 12 shot in Argonne in this period is that of Cal Leon PETIT (pilot) and Lieutenant Edmond ENOS (Observer) MIA in 22 june 1916-shot by Ltn Ernst Hess
The aircraft was part of the squadron N37 which would correspond with the
N ° 37 painted on the fuselage-The serial number was ° 1221

Ernst Hess - The Aerodrome - Aces and Aircraft of World War I

Here the Fiche MDH of LTN Edmond Enos
SGA - mémoire des hommes - Fiche

Here the Fiche MDH of Cal leon Petit
SGA - mémoire des hommes - Fiche

I think that there is great chance that it is the plane of your photo

Cordialement
Bruno

Ritterton · 8 July 2009, 09:59 PM

Froggy -

Boy, that does seem like a very good candidate.

I suspect that these cards were not instantly printed and available on the spot, but I am not really sure I understand the photographic process utilized at that time. That is something I will have to spend some time investigating.

If only the author had written a bit more about the location of the planes in relationship to where he was in the Argonne. Looking at the fiche, it does seem to correspond with the area where these two were last seen, I think.

Thank you all for the assist. If it is these two, then this was their aircraft and I suspect they died not far from this location.