No 11 Sqdn CRs for 27 Dec.1916 needed

Gregvan · 14 June 2009, 02:19 PM

Hello All,
I realize that this is mostly a shot in the dark, but I had to ask.
Does anyone have access to the combat reports of No. 11 Squadron (F.E.2b's) for 27 December 1916, and would you be willing to share them? In particular I'm looking for the report of Capt. J.B. Quested and 2/Lt. H.J.H. Dicksee (who was wounded) in F.E.2b 7666.

As is well known, a patrol of Fees from No. 11 encountered fighters from Jasta 1 at about 1115 hrs British time, Quested and Dicksee are believed to be responsible for shooting down the Pour le Mérite ace Gustav Leffers, who was killed this day. Then they were apparently attacked by Offz. Stv. Wilhelm Cymera, who claimed an FE near Cherisy. Dicksee was wounded but Quested managed to land the Fee in British territory, and Cymera failed to receive confirmation.

The crux of the matter for me is: the RFC crew is said to have stated that they thought the plane they shot down (supposedly Leffers) was a Nieuport in German markings. Now, this is believed to have been Leffers, as he was photographed with a Nieuport 16 that was marked with German crosses and fitted with a synchronized Spandau gun. I have little doubt that Leffers did fly this Nieuport in combat (probably achieving a victory in it on 3 Sept. 1916) and he certainly may have been flying it on his fatal day (as I wrote in a book...). However, there is mounting evidence that he may actually have been flying an Albatros D.I or D.II at the time of his death.??

In his copious and detailed notes on Jasta 1, the late Rick Duiven wrote that: "27Dec16 Ltn.d.R. Gustav Leffers is KIA over Chérisy in an Albatros D.II about 12.00 hours."

I'm not sure where Rick got this info, it may have been from the Dr. Bock notes in the Ferko files at UTD.

In addition, in his book Who Downed the Aces in WWI?, my friend Norman Franks wrote, "On the 27th, Jasta 1 go into a fight with some FE2b pushers of 11 Squadron. Leutnant Gustav Leffers' Albatros DII was one of four claimed shot down, probably falling to Captain J B Quested and his observer, Lt. H J H Dicksee (FE2 7666) at 11.20 over Wancourt. The FE crew were hit themselves, by Vzfw Wilhelm Cymera, who claimed his victory at 12.20 (i.e. German time one hour ahead)..."

I do have the RFC Communiques 1915-1916 book; all it says is: "Two German aeroplanes were brought down and seen to crash by 11 Squadron. One of these was destroyed by Capt. Quested and 2 Lt. Dicksee. A third hostile machine was forced to land in a field."

Thus, I'd like to see the CRs of the crew of FE2b 7666 and any other crews that are available. If no less than four enemy fighters were claimed, I wonder if someone else might have shot down Leffers in an Albatros, while another member of Jasta 1 was (perhaps) flying his cast-off Nieuport - but that is sheer speculation. Or perhaps Quested and Dicksee were mistaken in their identification. If Leffers had the opportunity to fly an Albatros D.II instead of an underpowered and one-gunned Nieuport, I would be surprised if he hadn't done so.

Input, opinions, anyone?

Thanks to all.

Greg

ONEALM · 16 June 2009, 01:32 PM

Greg -

I have a collection of 11 Sq CR's from Bill Bailey, but there is almost a year gap beginning in August 1916 - which obviously includes the date in question for Leffers.

I don't know if that means Bill never collected those CR's or if they don't exist. Unfortunately, I do not have the SRB to match up either.....

Maybe Graham will have some insight....
Mike

Gregvan · 16 June 2009, 02:16 PM

Thanks, Mike!

Greg

Graeme · 16 June 2009, 03:15 PM

I've been going through my records to see if I had noted the source of my data but have not turned up anything yet. However, I began with the Communiques then cross-referenced this data with what I could find in the way of Combat Reports, Brigade Summaries etc so what I've got will be from a mixture of sources. I have this down as an Albatros scout, most likely based on Rick's work.

I'l keep looking.

Graeme

Gregvan · 16 June 2009, 07:57 PM

Thanks, Graeme!

Greg

ONEALM · 17 June 2009, 09:37 AM

When I get home tonight, I'll take a look at the Daily Intelligence Summary - it might have something worthwhile, but doubt it will have enough detail to shed any light on the question....

Gregvan · 17 June 2009, 09:43 AM

My heartfelt thanks, Mike. Anything you can add will be of value.

Greg

Frank_Olynyk · 25 June 2009, 11:22 PM

Greg,
I finally found the combat report, which is in the 3rd Brigade War Diary for Dec 1916, as report F57. It was claimed at Wancourt, Map 51B N10. The remarks on hostile machine states "About 12 or 15 H.A. Single seater scouts. Halberstads, Aviatiks, Type L & type M." (I have not found a source for these type letters). The Narrative states:

"Whilst on photographic reconnaissance near VIS-EN-ARTOIS formation was attacked by 4 H.A. who were immediately engaged.
The H.A. were quickly reinforced and for about 20 minutes they kept on attacking. We fought them, driving one down which was seen to crash at about N10 (Map51B), until only 1 drum was left for back gun. Whilst flying towards the lines 3 H.A. dived on to ou(r) tail and whilst observer was standing firing the back gun he was wounded in the arm and unable to fire any more. Whilst getting back in spite of all dodging I could do the H.A. got to close range behind and shot petrol and oil tanks, planes, controls etc.
During the combat I observed 2 other H.A. (besides one mentioned above) driven down 1 crashed and 1 seemed to land under control."

Doesn't sound to me like this can be twisted into a Nieuport. I think someone is making assumptions here, or just plain spicing the story up.

Frank.

Gregvan · 26 June 2009, 12:00 AM

Frank,

God bless you!! Thanks so very much for this. It really puts a new perspective on things.

So was that report filed by Capt. Quested, or by the 11 Sqdn group as a whole?

I really appreciate all the trouble you went to. I owe you one (well, a lot more than one, actually!).

Best regards,

Greg

Frank_Olynyk · 26 June 2009, 12:31 AM

Greg,
Report F57 was filed by Quested alone. Reports F58 to F67 are all by individual crews, sometimes by the pilot, others by the observer. F57 gives the time as 11.0 - 11.25am.
Report F58, 11.15-11.40am, over Monchy, Lowe+Masters. No claim. Several Halberstadts and 2 type "L".
Report F59, 11.20am, near Arras, Curling+Guy. No claim. 1 Type "L".
Report F60, 3.15pm, over Adinfer Wood, Dowling+Griffith. No claim. 2 Type M, 1 Halberstadt.
Report F61, 11.15am, near Fampoux, Middleton+Tollerfield, no claim (?), Type L, very fast, fixed gun shooting through the propeller.
Report F62, 11.15am, Map 51B H.28, Woodman+Hallitt, 2 Type "L", 1 Halberstadt, 6 other machines. One machine seen to go down under control, a little later another fell apparently out of control.
Report F63, 11.15am, Monchy, Sargood+Smith, several Halberstadts, one type L, one seen going down under control and one in a spinning nose dive and crashed near Monchy le Preux.
Report F64, 10.40-11.15am, Graham+Dyer, Monchy le Preux, Halberstadt Scout Type L & M, one seen to go down OOC first in a spin which turned into a dead leaf glide, then into a another spin, as we were again attacked this machine was not seen to crash or land.
Report F65, 11.15, Taylor+Boddy, between Arras & Monchy le Preux, Type L and M (?) & Halberstadt, one machine down under control "I think it eventually landed", one seemed to go down OOC.
Report F66, 11.40am, Read+Holman, between Arras & Monchy le Preux, about 6 Halberstadts, very fast; no claim. "Also engaged a machine with front gun type unknown rather like an Albatross. Tracers were seen to hit 3 machines one of which immediately went down in a steep nose dive."
Report F67, 3?.30pm, Woodman+Hallitt, Map 51C X15, two type M, red in colour, no claim.

Enjoy!

Frank.