Xtracolour WW1 German paints

Warthog9 · 3 June 2009, 12:03 AM

Can anyone offer an opinion on Xtracolours paints and how accurate are the colours?

Trackpad · 3 June 2009, 05:38 AM

Hi,

I'm working on the Wingnut Wings Junkers J.1, and I have access to the example located in Ottawa, Canada. I'm trying to do a mix to get the mauve (a very dark colour) displayed on that artefact. So far, the Xtracolor German WW1 Topside Purple (X242) is surprisingly close, although I believe that it has to be "muted" a bit: still working on that aspect of the project. You must bear in mind that I have the good fortune to have the artefact right in front of me, and that it displays a colour that is at variance with other versions (such as the Misterkits paint, and various builds on this forum). However, for this aircraft, which is the subject of my build, X242 is certainly in the ballpark. Was this colour used on other J.1's? Well, if it was, there will have to be a fair amount of rethinking on the question of "The Colour Purple" (with apologies to Whoopi Goldberg!).

Hope this helps. And, as this appears to be your first post to the 'Drome, welcome aboard!

Warthog9 · 3 June 2009, 07:55 AM

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Hope this helps. And, as this appears to be your first post to the 'Drome, welcome aboard!

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for he welcome, normally build 1/32 but have been drawn to building my first biplanes by the quality of the Wingnut LVG and J.1.
And it was mainly the mauve |I wanted to match for the Junkers.

Trackpad · 3 June 2009, 08:54 AM

There is one other thread on this topic (darned if I can find it now!) that discusses the "light mauve vs. dark mauve" question. One modeller has decided that he will use a darker mauve from a line of railroad model paints. The whole point is, I think, the effectiveness (or not) of the "light mauve" as a camouflage colour.

As I am doing 586/18, I have the airframe to study and so I can play with a mix until I think that I've got it right (considering such variables as fading, deterioration of the paint skin, rough handling and so on). Dontcha just love this hobby!

TeamStewart · 3 June 2009, 10:36 AM

I thought it was this thread, but It might not be!

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ca...-question.html

The one I'm thinkning of, but also can't find had that paint chip graphic created by JumpinJan. This one:

Is that what you were thinking of?

Trackpad · 3 June 2009, 11:42 AM

Hi, TS

Now, THAT'S embarassing: my own thread!! "Thanks for the lead," he said, ambling back to the Peanut Gallery!

WRT to the colour chart you attached, I'm currently looking at something like Mauve 17F8 and Green 30E8 a included, but both toned down or "muted" a bit. I'm looking to add a bit of Xtracolor Dark Earth to achieve this look. It's almost going to be a subjective call as to "what looks right" after seeing the airframe. Once I get a mix that matches the a/c, I'll post it on the 'Drome and head for my trench!

Might be a while though, as I'm still fumbling through the cockpit detail with side trips to the engine! Sorry, Warthog: I might be hijacking your thread a bit here. If it helps, I'll be using the Xtracolor line to make the mix I'll eventually use: to my mind it's excellent paint! BTW, I have also used their German Underside Blue to good effect on a Fokker Triplane. Hope all of this helps!

ChrisSavaglio · 3 June 2009, 11:44 AM

Most of the mauves I've seen out of the bottle are way too light in my opinion. I used MisterKit out of the bottle on my J.I, but I didn't want to get too deep into the exact shades.

One thing to keep in mind, that even though you have access to the real thing, the paint on it is nearly 100 years old. The paint was not meant to last. Even on WWII a/c, where the paint qualities and stability was much better, most colors faded, darkened, and changed shades over a few weeks in the sun. That's why if you look at color period photos of C-47s, there's as many shades of OD green as airplanes.

Anyway, all to be taken with a grain of salt.

Another point about camo is that it's not necessarily only an attempt to blend in with the ground, but also to break up the outline of the aircraft/vehicle/ship. By disguising the outline, it fools the eye into seeing a smattering of shapes and making it difficult to tell what you're up against as well as what its direction of travel and your prospective to it is. It also makes it hard for the eye to recognize that what it's seeing is man made (when seen against the ground).

Also, colors blend together at distance and speed. In WWII, different tail patterns were used and it was found that certain colors blended together into other colors to look less like, say a candy striped tail, and more like a solid lighter color.

Really, the colors used on lozenge aren't very good at blending with anything, but taken together, at a distance and traveling relatively fast, they blend into a tone that blends, and the geometric shapes break up the outlines.

I see this being the idea behind the mauve/green camo patterns. The green taken by itself wouldn't be great camo (since a solid color allows outlines to be seen against multi colored backgrounds) and the mauve by itself would just be a purple/pink airplane. Together, they blend and disguise the outline, making effective camo for its day.

Just some ramblings about things I picked up from my army and marine training.

Chris

buzz1941 · 3 June 2009, 12:37 PM

Trackpad, a little light sanding on a tiny portion of the existing mauve might reveal a truer color. Work with the curator.

Any ideas about the shade of the undersurface buff color? Also, could the buff color have extended OVER the underside of the loz fabric of the rear fuselage?

Trackpad · 3 June 2009, 02:41 PM

Hi, All,

Chris, thanks for your thoughts. I agree that we have an artefact that is quite old, and that we may never get the exact shade. The best I can hope to achieve with 586/18 is to get as close as I can, given the myriad of variables in play.

Buzz, point taken, but I had to wear cotton gloves under the direct supervision of a staff member armed with an AK-47 (well, maybe I stretch that point a little!) just to get up close and personal with the airframe. I will certainly ask, but I doubt that they'll allow it, although I'll have my little micropad sanders with me just in case!

The undersurface comes pretty close to Tamiya XF59. The photo of 586/18 on the Wingnut site shows the paint extending back along the lower fuselage all the way to the rudder post, so as far as I can see it was applied over the fabric on the undersurface. None of the original fabric from 586/18 remains (at least, not at the Museum), so all we have to go on so far is photo coverage. I didn't see any light blue on the undersurfaces of the wings when I visited last, so I think that the current colour was applied at the factory. However, I will recheck this on my next visit. Oh, for a time machine and a camera!!

TeamStewart · 3 June 2009, 04:15 PM

I used Jan's colour chart (see my post above), and in Paint Shop Pro, my graphics package, set the background colour to the darker of his recommended greens, and the foreground to the lighter, which were Dan-San's recommendataions.

I then made a block about 3" wide and 10" tall and did a gradient fill between the two. I the did the same with the mauves beside the green.

I printed them out on good quality photo paper, making sure that my inks were not empty, and after cleaning the heads on the printer.

I then took the printed sheet to Michaels and matched the two to available shades of craft colours. The lightness wasn't so important, as I can always lighten them, or darken them, if necessary.

I think I came away with celery green from one manufacturer and lilac from another, at 97cents each for a 4oz jar.

The colours are a little intense, so I'll be mixing them with some neutral grey to mute them a bit.

I will then thin these with future before spraying.

That's just what I have in mind.