Aircraft question

[jsontag]

Was there any aircraft that saw comabt from the very beginning of the war to the end of the war? Thanks.

[Terrencejones]

I think progressive models of the BE2 served from beginning to end though not in the same role. When it was finaly withdrawn from the front line in 1917 it was used as a home defence fighter and I think finished the war as a trainer. The long service of the BE2 is in no way a sign that it was too good to let go, it was obsolete by the end of 1915 and progressive models were nothing more than polished turds that cost lives (but thats another story)
As a little aside to this and in direct contrast, the Spitfire served from the beginning to the end of ww2 and was never for long outclassed ( untill the arrival of jets of course)
cheers Terry

[jsontag]

Originally Posted by Terrencejones

I think progressive models of the BE2 served from beginning to end though not in the same role. When it was finaly withdrawn from the front line in 1917 it was used as a home defence fighter and I think finished the war as a trainer. The long service of the BE2 is in no way a sign that it was too good to let go, it was obsolete by the end of 1915 and progressive models were nothing more than polished turds that cost lives (but thats another story)
As a little aside to this and in direct contrast, the Spitfire served from the beginning to the end of ww2 and was never for long outclassed ( untill the arrival of jets of course)
cheers Terry

Thank you the information Terry. Regarding WW II aircraft, besides the Spitfire, the Bf-109, A6M Zero, P-40, B-17, B-24, B-25, B-26, PBY to name a few, flew from the beginning until the end of the war. I believe the Dauntless did as well. Just not as knowledgeable on WW I aircraft at all.

[Gregvan]

It kind of depends on what you mean by "saw combat" and how you define a single aircraft design. Like the BE2, there were other designs that were around in 1914 that went through a number of modifications and engine changes, etc. and were still around in 1918, though mostly as trainers.

Certainly the most obvious example is the remarkable Avro 504 design, which "made its public debut at Hendon on September 20, 1913." The type went through several engine installations and designations, (the 504J, 504K, etc.) and saw some limited combat use at the beginning of the war and extensive use as a trainer well into the 1920's. As late as 1918, some 504k's were used as Home Defence single-seat fighters, armed with a single Lewis on the top wing and the 110 hp Le Rhone.

Among French designs, the Caudron G.3 first flew in May 1913 and saw considerable service as a frontline observation a/c. It was still in use as a trainer late in 1918, and many saw both civilian and military use well into the 1920's at far-flung locations around the world.

The German three-bay design known as the Albatros B.I began its extended life as the Albatros DD in December 1913, and the two-bay type which became known as the B.II was debuted at about the same time. Both types saw quite a bit of frontline use early in the war, and the B.II and B.IIa were still in production and use as trainers through the end of the war. The Poles continued to use the Albatros B.IIa in the post-war years (though certainly as trainers, not combat a/c) and the Swedes used the license-built Albatros Sk.1.

Those are just very general outlines; I've no doubt made some errors and omissions that others will point out.

Greg

[Aquilius]

Another one would be the Avro 504 that was built with minor changes from 1913 into the 1930ies.

But here the big change happened in 1915/1916 when most of the types needed a redesign to carry weapons, at lest for defence. And then the developement of aircraft for different roles arised quickly.
While looking for stability before the war, now moving characteristics became more and more important and therefore most of the early aircraft could serve on as trainers only.


Cheers

Aquilius

[EricGoedkoop]

Morane-Saulnier L, also. Started life pre-war as a parasol version of the G and was still in use during the Russian Civil War.

[Ransom E. Olds]

Jsontag: Your list of airplanes includes several that didn't fly operationally from the beginning of the Second World War unless you're assuming it began on December 7, 1941 or some other date well after September 1939. Ransom

[Terrencejones]

I mentioned the spitfire as it is without doubt the best example of an aircraft that could hold its own from the very beginning of a world war to its end in the same role it was originaly designed. No other aircraft in military history has done that quite like the Spitfire and no other aircraft has done the opposite quite like the BE2. It is the contrast between these two aircraft that I was getting at and how length of service is not not always the measure of the machine.
At the start of ww1 aircraft were gerenaly considered to be only of use in a scouting/ recconasance capacity (with the exception of the zeppelins )
There were no fighters or bombers in the beginning, just aircraft. As the air war developed so did the role and the machines that took part. What was generaly found was a good aircraft at the start of the war (stable and easy to fly) was useless when under attack by the new breed of aircraft that were able to carry machine guns and shoot at it ( eg Fokker Eindecker). They were never designed to be able to defend themselfs or be maneuverable enough to take evasive action. The Avro 504k was such an aircraft and withdrawn from the front line to take a more suitable role as soon as that became evident.
When the air war began to take the aggresive nature, fitting machine guns became necessary for defence and the abilty to aim your aircraft at a target
and shoot became desirable on the attack.
The problems early designers had were in adapting their aircraft to take into account these drastic changes in the air and continue production of frontline machines (profit is always a key factor). The BE2 never made the change in a suitable way and became "Fokker Fodder" . It served on the frontline for about two years longer than it should. No early machine that I am aware of did make the change. Sopwith for example made new designs having entered the war with the "Tabloid" they went on to design the armed one and half strutter, the "Pup", "Triplane" and "Camel" ( names to put fear into any enemy!)
Although there are some aircraft that "served" throughout the "Great War" I dont think there are any that served throughout on the frontline.
I may be wrong.
Cheers Terry

[jsontag]

Originally Posted by Ransom E. Olds

Jsontag: Your list of airplanes includes several that didn't fly operationally from the beginning of the Second World War unless you're assuming it began on December 7, 1941 or some other date well after September 1939. Ransom

You're right on the A6M Zero, came into service in China in 1940. The Bf 109 flew in different variants from beginning to end, and the American planes obviously flew from December 7, 1941 to the end.

[Brad]

Wasn't the Bristol Scout still in service all the way to the end of the war? (albeit as a trainer/squadron hack.)