Re 8

Jeff Mc William · 12 April 2009, 01:25 AM

Hi. Can anyone tell me if the RE8 was ever fitted with a dual control system ? I ask because I have heard of an incident where the pilot of an RE8 was shot during an attack by several EA's, but apparently the observer managed to take over and get the 'plane back across the lines and land it safely. Quite a feat I reckon !
However, none of the technical descriptions or other data that I have so far seen mentions dual control..so I am left wondering if this story is correct or just a myth, or was there indeed such a system ?? For example, I KNOW there was dual control on the Armstrong Whitworth FK8 as this is well documented. Any comments would be most welcome. Jeff

'14-'18aviationcollector · 12 April 2009, 02:59 AM

Hi Jeff,

Is that the AFC RE8 that shot the Albatros D.Va down? - D.5390 / '17, the one that is now in the Australian War Memorial? A single bullet supposedly killed the pilot and the observer, which it probably did, but in an interview with Bob Waugh, who interviewed one of the first allied military members who attended the crash scene, he told me that there was some evidence that the observer had lived for some time even after the RE8 crashed. One theory is that the observer was able to steer the aeroplane, at least to a degree. My understanding is that there are some sort of controls available to the observer, some sort of handles on the rudder cables which the oberver can operate, but I don't know if this is true or not. I do have some RE8 drawings, so I could have a look for you.

Regards, David.

Jeff Mc William · 12 April 2009, 06:48 AM

Hi David. Sorry, no not your one (above) interesting tho' it is. The one I had in mind was A4691 (No4 Squadron RFC) piloted by Sgt W.R.Clarke (Observer 2ndLt F.P.Blencowe) incident, 28th July 1917. Apparently both survived, but the other interestin point is that Clarke was a West Indian, possibly the first or only black pilot in the RFC at that time. Regards. Jeff

'14-'18aviationcollector · 12 April 2009, 04:32 PM

Hi Jeff,

Thank you very much for the reply. The fact that it happened supposedly on at least two occasions could indicate that the RE8 actually had this feature. I thought I had the technical manual for the RE8 but in fact what I have is the technical manuals for the Royal Aircraft Factory FE2b and the Bristol F2b, so I can't give you a definitive answer just yet unfortunately. There was a thread about coloured pilots in the RFC and the RAF. I have two photos of a Lt Hardit Malik Singh, who was an Indian Sopwith Camel pilot. One very helpful Aerodrome member supplied the names of about ten or so coloured RFC / RAF pilots. I honestly didn't know that there were so many!

Regards,

David.

Bletchley · 12 April 2009, 11:19 PM

Hello Jeff,

Yes, I think it did. The Observer would have had some limited dual control - a "passenger's" joystick that he could screw down into a socket in the Observer's cockpit, and also rudder pedals already in place. But no engine controls that I know of. The RAF BE2's had this arrangement. I have a spare-parts listing for the BE2 that lists all the components for these, and I think it was a standard arrangement for all Royal Aircraft Factory two-seaters, so the RE8 should have had it also.

Bletchley

Doc · 12 April 2009, 11:32 PM

The book "Aeroplanes of the Royal Aircraft Factory" by Paul Hare talks about conversion of some RE-8s to trainer aircraft. On page 66, he mentions that during this conversion of the observer's cockpit, "the rather rudimentary dual controls were replaced with a conventional stick and rudder bar. .... a throttle control lever was a standard fitting in the rear cockpit" [which was moved during the conversion]. So, apparently, the production version did have a dual control capability so that the observer could control the aircraft if needed. Doc

Jeff Mc William · 13 April 2009, 12:51 PM

Gentlemen. Thank you all very much for your views and advice. From what you have said, it sounds pretty conclusive to me that there was indeed some sort of limited control that the observer of the RE8 could resort to in the case of a dire emergency such as has already been referred to..and I guess this will have happened more than twice !
I shall now transfer my enquiries to the "People" section in the hope of learning some more about Sgt W.R.Clarke and 2ndLt F.P.Blencowe.
My sincere thanks again to you all for your time and trouble on my behalf. Sincerely. Jeff