AEG Riesenflugzeuge (R.I, R.II)

[maze]

Hi all,

I'm recently joined you forum - thanks for all of your compentent postings!

I'm interested in the german R.Planes, because they were drivers in inventing new technologies (calculation & manufacturing methods).

Currently I have a resonable overview of the ones built.

For AEG's R.I & R.II, I have no information. So if one of you can post some information, that would be wonderful.

Thanks & greeting from Vienna
Marcus

P.S.: I'm aware of the "German Giant" book, but the current prices are really a bit prohibitive.

[Rbailey]

The RI had 4 fuselage-mounted engines with two propellers mounted between the wings and driven by shafts It had a few test flights but was destroyed when an inadequately cured propeller came apart in flight, resulting in wing collapse.
The RII was not completed. It was intended to have eight 260 hp Mercedes engines.
What specifically are you looking for?

[maze]

Hi Rbailey,

I know the overall dimensions, weight and performance data of both, but have no glue on the overall design. So a photo and/or a 3-view would be helpful.

In general I'm deeply interested in this "transition phase" (1915-1920), e.g. Zeppelin-Staaken R.Planes -> E.4/20 -> Beardmore Inflexible, Junkers J 10 (Cl.1) -> F.13, Zeppelin-Dornier -> Dornier.

Thank you & greeting from Vienna -> Troy

Marcus

[rivnut]

Hello Marcus, This is all I have. The R1.
If I had more I'd have built a model also! Hopefully others can add to this.

Looking at it closely, you get a fairly good idea of the shape of the forward fuselage, but, that's nothing to base a model on. I'd love to build this thing.
I'm finishing up a Friedrichshafen GIII right now. These big subjects are extremely interesting.

Kev

[crankcase]

Originally Posted by rivnut

...
I'm finishing up a Friedrichshafen GIII right now. These big subjects are extremely interesting.
Kev

Yeah, the R-planes in a "big" scale means no eye-strain or having to manipulate microscopic pieces!
Some of our Forumites are into miniaturization (which they do extremely well) but I count myself among the ham-fisted. =0(
marc

[maze]

Hello Kev,

thanks a lot! Now I have at least one indication, how this planes looked like.

Cheers, Marcus

Originally Posted by rivnut

Hello Marcus, This is all I have. The R1.
If I had more I'd have built a model also! Hopefully others can add to this.

Looking at it closely, you get a fairly good idea of the shape of the forward fuselage, but, that's nothing to base a model on. I'd love to build this thing.
I'm finishing up a Friedrichshafen GIII right now. These big subjects are extremely interesting.

Kev

[Varese2002]

Hi Marcus, looking around on ebay.de I found copies of Haddow and Grosz German giants started at EUR 32,40 (exclusive postage), look here. This is the cheapest one offered - at a fixed price on Ebay. Although it is not mentioned in the Ebay advertisement this is not the latest (last ?) edition of this book. Probably the first, maybe the second edition.

Mark the somewhat suspect description 'Maybe Ex-Library So Please Expect Stamps/Missing publication page Etc' [Maybe ..... ?].

But still it is the work of Haddow / Grosz in its first incarnation.

Sure you wrote the registration of the A.E.G. R.I or R.II correct and not as sometimes seen R1 or RI (which is not correct).

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

Hi Marcus,

first I want to ask where you found a designation AEG R.II ?
I haven't noted yet that there was a second “Riesenflugzeug” from AEG (don't know what someone made to call it “überschwerer Langstreckenbomber” at wiki ) while the first project was abandoned before it went to service.

But I can add something more on the AEG R.I.

In the english wiki (and several other english sources) it is quoted to be first flown in 1916, but that's wrong. The date might be caused by the serial R 21/16, just it was built and completed in 1918. (also a lot of the Zeppelin-Staaken giants are not to be dated in the year of their serials)
The serials indicate the order was increased from two to six copies (R 21/16; 22/16 & 59/?? – 62/??), after the first one got into the air.

Is the prototype been built before – or was R 21/16 the only one completed?

This is how looks from the front:


Walther Rathenau, the chief of AEG, together with Emil Ballin, director of HAPAG, planned to built a Trans-Atlantic biplane or a long-distance passenger aircraft. This idea came up before the war, not only in Germany. But here some meetings of the WGL (Wissenschafliche Gesellschaft für Luftfahrt) took place where it was tried to get companies work together. In 1914 the war ended its attempts but AEG later followed up the project. They couldn't built civil machines during war, so it official was declared a bomber-project with 4 engines placed inside the cabin to be easy servicable inflight.

Rathenau wanted to have a useful passenger aircraft when war ended and hoped to sell quite a few of them if it would be able to manage a promotional flight across the ocean. The maiden flight took place in June 1918 and showed satisfying balance and well manouverable characteristics. Only in September a prop broke in flight, causing the aircraft to crash and killed the crew of 7, including the AEG-director Brücke.

I have noted: This ended the project.
Can someone prove that the construction continued until war ended?

[based on Heinz J. Nowarra's notes in the book of Staaken giants]


Cheers

Aquilius

[Varese2002]

Sure Aquilius, those Wiki's are not very reliable The problem is that people go away wih this wrong information and think that it is the truth.

The first flight of the only A.E.G. R.I (R.21/16) was on June 14, 1918. The machine crashed on September 3, 1918 killng the complete crew of 7 people (including A.E.G. director Brückmann - not Brücke ). The reason was that a propeller broke in the air, sothat the cardan driving the propeller broke loose, shattering the complete centre structure, the machine disintegrated in mid-air.

Construction of the other examples R.22, R.59, R.60, R.61, R.62, R.63 and R.64 was started. R.22 was partially constructed in November 1918, but construction stopped. From the other examples only parts were built, but all were scrapped. It is reported that there exists a picture of the scrapyard of A.E.G. after the war where three nose sections of the A,E,G, R.I are lying derelict. Unfortunately I have never seen that one.

The A.E.G. R.II remained on the drawing board. This machine was quite unlike the R.I, being a thick-wing all-metal monoplane like similar Junkers and Staaken projects. Designs for this machine were very advanced in November 1918.

Cheers

Kees

[maze]

Hi all,

thanks for the pic (Aquilius) and thanks for the clearification and further info (Kees).

AEG R.I:
+ engines: 4 x 260 (1040) HP Mercedes D.IVa
+ propellers: 2 tractor
+ dimensions: span 36.0 m, length 19.5 m, area 260 m2
+ weights: empty 9.000 kg, loaded 12.700 kg

AEG R.II R.205/16:
+ engines: 8 x 350 (2800) HP Mercedes D.IVa [don't think this is right, sounds more like BuS.IVa, or Bz.VI]
+ dimensions: span 45.9 m, length 24.2 m, area 325 m2
+ weights: empty 12.480 kg

[source: The German Giants, Appendix 13, Chart of R-plane Numbers, Dimensions and Performance (only have these 3 pages)]

Cheers, Marcus