BREGUET's CRASH FILE CHALLENGE Nr.367

[Varese2002]

BREGUET's CRASH FILE CHALLENGE Nr.367

Have a go in the new year on this one. The exact recognition of the machine brings the full point. If you know some circumstances of this crash that can deliver extra points (or better tenth of points, these are shrifty times ).

Cheers

Kees



Scoreboard at the start of #367:

42.50 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger ¤ Ace of Aces ¤
35.55 Froggy ¤
30.10 Rbailey ¤
27.90 Flamingo ¤
23.40 Breguet
19.90 Richard B
18.15 YavorD
12.75 Aquilius
11.00 Varese2002
09.25 AROTH
08.10 Rod_Filan
08.00 ONEALM
07.90 Gregvan
07.00 matte_kudasai
06.80 '14-'18aviationcollector
05.75 Ross
05.70 Jeroplan
05.50 Expositor
05.50 Gilles
05.00 Dan_San
05.00 Kilian ................................Have to wait three hours!
04.00 Edmond ..............................May start immediately!
04.00 Eric
04.00 Laserlloyd
04.00 Patrick
03.50 sergio_vitalio
03.30 PaulForster
03.20 Colin A Owers
03.20 Crankcase
03.00 Crimso
02.70 Tbstreet
02.00 Albatros_Ace
02.00 Cruze
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.80 gregorydquist
01.80 Tom L
01.50 Nieuport 14
01.45 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Ampovandak
01.00 Berman
01.00 brisfitworks
01.00 Cliff
01.00 Pvernon
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 RONNY BAR
01.00 Troy Raines
00.60 Catfish
00.50 Miroslav Pokorny
00.10 SCMc


Previous Breguet's Crash Files Breguet's Crash Files

THE RULES

1. All aircraft are of the 14-18 period (Must have left the ground during this period).
2. All "ACES" with a score of 5.0 or higher must obey the 3.0 hour handicap. All others with a score of ZERO to 4.99 may start immediately, if not sooner!
Offenders will be dealt with severely!
3. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
4. And whom ever wins this challenge will have to provide a new one! If this can not be done for any reason, please PM Breguet and he will take over as host!
5. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next challenge. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
6. The final arbitrator of all things to do with the "rules" is Breguet

[FOKKERJ]

Greetings Kees,

It looks like a big one!
The bi-plane tail section, Nachtenbombengeschwader Flugzeugstoff, and the M.G. propellor guards suggests a Gotha GVa from Gothaer Waggonfabrik.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, FOKKERJ

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by FOKKERJ

Greetings Kees,

It looks like a big one!
The bi-plane tail section, Nachtenbombengeschwader Flugzeugstoff, and the M.G. propellor guards suggests a Gotha GVa from Gothaer Waggonfabrik.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, FOKKERJ

Quite a good shot FokkerJ but not good enough. You will have to do another one to get it right. Although not correct I wonder how you could positively identify from this picture alone this specific version (Gotha G.Va) ?

Cheers

Kees

[Flamingo]

Hi Kees

I would say a later Go G.VII as there seems to be a rudder of it in the foreground

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Flamingo

Hi Kees

I would say a later Go G.VII as there seems to be a rudder of it in the foreground

Exactly Joachim, a Gotha G.VII or GL.VII. Any answers about the circumstances, the crash machine, specials etc.?

Cheers

Kees

[Flamingo]

Well, the cap of the guy make me think it could be from Ukraine, and as far as I know the G.VII saw very limited use with the Germans during the war.
Any date , location or personnel are not known to me.

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Quite a good shot FokkerJ but not good enough. You will have to do another one to get it right. Although not correct I wonder how you could positively identify from this picture alone this specific version (Gotha G.Va) ?

Cheers

Kees

Thank you, but firing a blank is not good enough! Always happy to help one of my favorite wing men (like he needs it!).
I can not positively identify the subject of this fotograf as a Gotha G.Va.
The clarity of the picture is not that good and the machine is not a G.Va.
It bothered me that as large as this crashed aeroplane appears, that what I perceived as the bi-plane tail
section looked too small for a Gotha G.Va.
After looking up the GL.VII and seeing it's size, the GL.VII makes more sense.

Congratulations to Flamingo on a clean "Kill" and thanks to Kees for a good challenge.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, FOKKERJ

[Froggy]

Bonjour à tous
I am unable to read this language but
It seems that Gotha GVII was used by Czechoslovakia until 1920 ?

Gotha G.L. VII [Letectvi.wz.cz - letadla, historie letectvÃ*, letectvo a dalÅ¡Ã*]

Cordialement
Bruno

[Varese2002]

This particular Gotha GL.VII (or G.VII) had a unique history. After the war it was used (as were other German machines) in the secret transport flights of Ukrainian banknotes, karbovanets [карбованець]. These banknotes were printed in Germany by the Reichsdruckerei

The money had to be delivered to Kamenets-Podolski [Каменец-Подольский], then the capital city of the Ukrainian People's Republic, then led by Symon Petlyura. Flights were highly secret, without possiblity of landing on foreign (mostly hostile) ground, like Poland, Czecho-Slovakia, Rumania.

The first flight with the Gotha G.VII was not succesfull as the machine had to make an emergency landing at Bratislava-Vajnorie. The machine and the cargo was confiscated by the Czechs. Nothing has been found or heard of the cargo till now. It was intended to fly the machine to Prague for tests, but it had to be repaired on the spot. In February - March 1920 the machine was ready to fly (by the same German pilot, who should have flown to Kamenets-Podolski, tohgether with two Czech mechaniciens). Unfortunately the machine had to make again an em,ergency landing near the village Stupava (near Bratislava). After repair the machine flew again further, but finally crashed along the railroad track of Bratislava, complete destroyed (the Challenge picture). The crew escaped with light injuries, almost unexplainable looking at the complete devastation.

There are pictures of this machine with the Ukrainian markings of the Ukrainian People's Republic.

Perhaps Miroslav can translate some relevant texts from the Czech language site?

Next Challenge goes to Flamingo / Joachim.

Cheers

Kees


Scoreboard at the end of #367:

42.50 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger ¤ Ace of Aces ¤
35.55 Froggy ¤
30.10 Rbailey ¤
28.90 Flamingo ¤
23.40 Breguet
19.90 Richard B
18.15 YavorD
12.75 Aquilius
11.00 Varese2002
09.25 AROTH
08.10 Rod_Filan
08.00 ONEALM
07.90 Gregvan
07.00 matte_kudasai
06.80 '14-'18aviationcollector
05.75 Ross
05.70 Jeroplan
05.50 Expositor
05.50 Gilles
05.00 Dan_San
05.00 Kilian ................................Have to wait three hours!
04.00 Edmond ..............................May start immediately!
04.00 Eric
04.00 Laserlloyd
04.00 Patrick
03.50 sergio_vitalio
03.30 PaulForster
03.20 Colin A Owers
03.20 Crankcase
03.00 Crimso
02.70 Tbstreet
02.00 Albatros_Ace
02.00 Cruze
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.80 gregorydquist
01.80 Tom L
01.50 Nieuport 14
01.45 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Ampovandak
01.00 Berman
01.00 brisfitworks
01.00 Cliff
01.00 Pvernon
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 RONNY BAR
01.00 Troy Raines
00.60 Catfish
00.50 Miroslav Pokorny
00.10 SCMc