Last moments of ace Kurt Schneider Jasta 5 on photo

[Regulus]

Forum Eerste Wereldoorlog :: Bekijk onderwerp - Laatste ogenblikken van een piloot op foto

The forced landing on 14 July 1917 which he did not survive, two photo's of Albatros DV 1066/17 and the last moments of Lt. Kurt Schneider, 15 victory ace...

[Jos]

Very impressive!!!


Jos

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by Regulus

Forum Eerste Wereldoorlog :: Bekijk onderwerp - Laatste ogenblikken van een piloot op foto

The forced landing on 14 July 1917 which he did not survive, two photo's of Albatros DV 1066/17 and the last moments of Lt. Kurt Schneider, 15 victory ace...

Regulus Mate,
outstanding pics, seen the first one, but not the second. Thanks for the show.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[ONEALM]

The top photo appears in Neal O'Connor's Aviation Awards of Imperial German, Volume III (Saxony) on page 117.

For those unfamiliar with the series of seven volumes, they are a must have for the student of German aviation.

[josquin]

Regulus

This is a real find--something we usually only read about in
combat reports, squadron record books, or postwar first-person
accounts. Thank you for ensuring that all of us at the Forum
could see Kurt Schneider's final moments, and for reminding
us that "FTL" (Forced to Land) encounters were not always
escapes to fight another day.
regards, josquin

[Barrett]

What were the circumstances of Schneider's death? ATL does not provide details.

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by Barrett

What were the circumstances of Schneider's death? ATL does not provide details.

Mate,
Maybe this might help: On 05 Jun 1917, Ltn Kurt Schneider made a forced landing with his Albatros D.V (1066/17) ‘2’ near Cambrai, in which he was severely wounded in the thigh after enemy action. When his aircraft forced landed, he received medical attention on the grass by the side of his machine, before being lifted onto a stretcher, which the first aid men had prepared for his use. Ltn Schneider was then delivered into Field Hospital No.255 at Beauvois and where he died on 14 Jul 1917 due to blood poisoning. At the time of his wounding Ltn. Schneider was acting Staffelführer for Jasta 5, after the death of Hauptman von Hünerbein who was Killed in a flying accident (KIFA) on 07 May 1917– ‘Cross & Cockade Great Britian Journal’ Vol.10 No.4 1979 – pg 183; Alex Imrie; Bundesarchiv 104-0797/104-0798A

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[R Gannon]

As Tom points out one of the photo's first appeared in C&C GB Vol 10#4 p183 captioned 'wounded German pilot receives first aid..' Alex Imrie in Vol 11 #1identified Scneider and elaborated on his wounding; adding a nice group photo of Js 5 personnel standing in front of 1066/17 inc Voss, Konnecke & Mai. The same photo appears in 'Werner Voss' by Denis Hylands page 4.

Now the Grub St corpus award Schneider's wounding to the 22 Sqn FE2b crew of Capt Clement & 2Lt Davies. This may well be the case however it is worth reconstructing the fight:

On 5 Jun 17 two 22 Sqn FE's were sent on a recon escorted by four Pup's of 54 Sqn. After crossing the lines at 12,000 ft, this formation dived on 5 Albatros scouts at 10,000 ft over Beaurevior at 0700BT. Lt OM Sutton (A6183) sent one down: '..almost vertically, swaying slightly, from 10,000 ft..'. This was last seen at 500ft over Beaurevior. The formation then flew north and just before recrossing the line around 0715 dived on one of two Albatros formation's (6 machines) that were converging on them - the action taking place between Vaucelles & Lesdain (0715-0730). It was a hot affair and the second Albatros formation (4-6 Machines) soon joined in. The odds of 10 - 12 Albatros against 6 Brit machines soon told and FE2b A857 'B1' was driven down by two HA and FTL NW Lesdain - the credit going to Werner Voss of Js 5. Also in trouble was 2Lt BG Chalmers of 54 Sqn (B1729) who was forced down by 3 HA - the credit going to Ltn Kempf of Js 2 - however it is clear from Mai's diary that Vfw Dilcher also claimed credit for this machine. In return Clement & Davies claimed two Albatros OOC - "..but owing to the closeness of the fighting, we were unable to make certain whether they crashed or not."

Now Mai's brief entry does not specify the type of aircraft that Schneider was fighting when hit in the thigh, so it is possible that Sutton could have sent down the Js 5 ace. However it is also recorded that Vfw Kullmer of Js 6 was also WIA this date and as this was the only significant fight on the Cambrai sector it is likely this occured during this fighting. Possibly Js 6 were first formation engaged making him victim of Sutton. Thereafter Js 2 & Js 5 converged on the 22/54Sqn patrol.

One final point - in the Js 5 group shot - one airman is unidentified - Dilcher perhaps?

Knuckle whitening stuff hey Tom?

Cheers Russ

[Nacho]

Interesting picture. I see on the second picture that they have a stretcher out but I see no body.

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by RussGannon

As Tom points out one of the photo's first appeared in C&C GB Vol 10#4 p183 captioned 'wounded German pilot receives first aid..' Alex Imrie in Vol 11 #1identified Scneider and elaborated on his wounding; adding a nice group photo of Js 5 personnel standing in front of 1066/17 inc Voss, Konnecke & Mai. The same photo appears in 'Werner Voss' by Denis Hylands page 4.

Now the Grub St corpus award Schneider's wounding to the 22 Sqn FE2b crew of Capt Clement & 2Lt Davies. This may well be the case however it is worth reconstructing the fight:

On 5 Jun 17 two 22 Sqn FE's were sent on a recon escorted by four Pup's of 54 Sqn. After crossing the lines at 12,000 ft, this formation dived on 5 Albatros scouts at 10,000 ft over Beaurevior at 0700BT. Lt OM Sutton (A6183) sent one down: '..almost vertically, swaying slightly, from 10,000 ft..'. This was last seen at 500ft over Beaurevior. The formation then flew north and just before recrossing the line around 0715 dived on one of two Albatros formation's (6 machines) that were converging on them - the action taking place between Vaucelles & Lesdain (0715-0730). It was a hot affair and the second Albatros formation (4-6 Machines) soon joined in. The odds of 10 - 12 Albatros against 6 Brit machines soon told and FE2b A857 'B1' was driven down by two HA and FTL NW Lesdain - the credit going to Werner Voss of Js 5. Also in trouble was 2Lt BG Chalmers of 54 Sqn (B1729) who was forced down by 3 HA - the credit going to Ltn Kempf of Js 2 - however it is clear from Mai's diary that Vfw Dilcher also claimed credit for this machine. In return Clement & Davies claimed two Albatros OOC - "..but owing to the closeness of the fighting, we were unable to make certain whether they crashed or not."

Now Mai's brief entry does not specify the type of aircraft that Schneider was fighting when hit in the thigh, so it is possible that Sutton could have sent down the Js 5 ace. However it is also recorded that Vfw Kullmer of Js 6 was also WIA this date and as this was the only significant fight on the Cambrai sector it is likely this occured during this fighting. Possibly Js 6 were first formation engaged making him victim of Sutton. Thereafter Js 2 & Js 5 converged on the 22/54Sqn patrol.

One final point - in the Js 5 group shot - one airman is unidentified - Dilcher perhaps?

Knuckle whitening stuff hey Tom?

Cheers Russ

Mate,
Always glad to have someone fill in the gaps one misses.

Marry X-Mas Russ

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

OBTW please allow me to add your data to my book. Tks.