Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 495

[Rbailey]

As complete a designation as is reasonable please.

The scoreboard at the end of #494 is

93.0 Varese2002
61.5 Dave_Kent ¤
52.9 Rbailey ¤
21.3 Cruze
17.5 YavorD
16.65 Froggy
14.3 Aquilius
13.3 Rod Filan
9.8 richard B
9.6 Flamingo
8.1 Breguet
7.7 Dan-San
7.7 EdStevens
7.7 matte_kudasai
7.6 trp81
7.4 JohnMacG
7.3 Patrick
7.1 Colin A. Owers
6.7 Ampovandak
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
5.45 GregE
5.3 Crimso
5.3 Der Grüne Flieger
5.2 Doc
5.2 Gilles
5.1 bshatzer
5.0 Tom L
4.7 dpolglaze
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4.0 greenknight
3.7 Berman
2.5 Gregoire
2.1 Crankcase
2.0 AROTH
2.0 sobrien
2.0 Rickenbaron
1.7 Kilian
1.6 sergio_vitalio
1.3 Cigogne
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1.0 Albatros_Ace
1.0 airplane176
1.0 austin08
1.0 Brad
1.0 Cliff
1.0 cubsfan4life
1.0 gregorydquist
1.0 Luf-Rick
1.0 Mike Westorp
1.0 paolomiana
1.0 Peter Zambori
1.0 rammjaeger
1.0 Rexee
1.0 SL DIII
0.8 Machinbird
0.8 tbstreet
0.8 toxisch
0.6 Sreiko
0.5 Martin Irvine
0.4 Vilkata
0.3 Nieuport14
0.3 Miroslav Pokorny
0.3 albapfalzd3
0.2 Paul_J._Fisher


Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge Records: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918 - Breguet's Aircraft Challenge --

The rules :

•The thread title must be "Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
•The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
•The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
•The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
•Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
•If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
•Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
•To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
•The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
•If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
•The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Varese2002]

This is the Mexican TNCA Serie H Parasol single-seat trainer dating from 1917. TNCA stands for Talleres Nacionales de Construcciones Aeronáuticas.

The machine can be identified by (of course) its parasol wing, with a huge pylon above and its distinctive rudder. Distinctive is also its Mexican version of an Anzani engine, the Aztatl (6 cylinders, 80 hp).

I don't know how it comes, but the machine on the picture had right from the beginning already a Mexican feel on me

Quite a number of these Parasols were built, some machines soldiering on till at least 1922.

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

The machine below is also identified as a TNCA Serie H . I haven't found an authoritative source for more definitive designations of these TNCA machines, although I think I have it for the challenge example. Before I award rhe point I will ask if anyone can provide further clarification.

[matte_kudasai]

In the Janes WW1 there is a photo captioned "A Mexican-built Monoplane". Couple years ago I tried to identify it, and also decided that there is TNCA Serie H. Don't remember why I think this. Maybe www.worldairforces.com was helped, but now this site is dead

[matte_kudasai]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

The machine below is also identified as a TNCA Serie H . I haven't found an authoritative source for more definitive designations of these TNCA machines, although I think I have it for the challenge example. Before I award rhe point I will ask if anyone can provide further clarification.

TNCA Serie H dated by 1916 year, but on your photo - I doubt about 1916, because this is not very aviation-country Mexican, and have a Lamblin radiator, which is of later (I think) origin...

[Rbailey]

The machine of the second photo is early 1920,s so out of range of this challenge, but still called (as far as I can determine) a TNCA type H. What in the official designations distinguished this H from the earlier H? I think the H's were all parasols, and I have seen the low or mid-wing monoplanes referred to as E types, but not all Mexican monoplanes are TNCA's, and what came between C and H (if anything) is also confusing. I have one source on Mexican aviation history that indicates that only the TNCA A, B, C and H types were prior to 1919. (Types A, B, and C were all previous challenges; that's why I wanted to get the H in as well.)

As for Janes, it has two picture of a Mexican twin fuselage machine that I have not been able to find referenced anywhere, let alone identify.

Maybe someone here can throw more light on some of these early machines.

[Aquilius]

the only note I have of the TNCA Series H is:

"... was a derive of Morane L Parasol"


The Morane-typical "M-struttet landing gear" is missing here.
Therefore I wasn´t sure about, but it doesn´t need to be a licence product.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Froggy]

Bonsoir

This one is another TNCA very close to your's (but with rotary engine)

TNCA 3-E-130 Tololoche - fighter

Bruno

[Ricardo Reis]

Originally Posted by matte_kudasai

Maybe www.worldairforces.com was helped, but now this site is dead

you can use the Waybackmachine and get some back

Internet Archive Wayback Machine

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

The machine below is also identified as a TNCA Serie H . I haven't found an authoritative source for more definitive designations of these TNCA machines, although I think I have it for the challenge example. Before I award rhe point I will ask if anyone can provide further clarification.

In WW1 Aero No.151 there is a big article about Mexican aviation, which includes all early planes (foreign and indigineous) used in Mexico. It includes also quite a few (different) pictures of the TNCA Parasol (Type H) and a complete listing of Mexican serial numbers of all military planes used till about 1919 / 1920.

Cheers

Kees